Comments on: The Problem With Democrats: The Progressive Liberal Moral Continuum http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/ human nature Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:40:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Lloyd http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/#comment-1742 Lloyd Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:18:49 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=76#comment-1742 I believe, although fun to read, you may have over stated your point. I think that the candidates matter not at all. The Ideas that are being pressed forward by the liberal wing of the Democratic party is that the Government knows better how to take care of you than you do. Therefore, the more involved they become in your everyday expectations of life, the better for you, them, and the world. I strongly disagree with that. That's all I care about in this whole election, truly, the parties are equally weak, equally flawed and equally dishonest about it. Every democracy in history has fallen in the same way that the Obama's and Oberman's of this world will have us fall. Not by fighting, not by struggling against an enemy worthy of our attention, but voluntarily, one little Government bureaucracy at a time. We will give up our rights with a smile. We will stand by and let the government tell us where we must educate our children, which Doctor we can go to. We will gladly say okay when asked to let the Government spy on those it thinks to be "dangerous". Before you know it, They will be tasering some kid for asking a candidate a political question. Oh yeah, we're there. The republicans have really screwed up over the last several years by exposing too much of the "us versus them" agenda. So people are upset and distrusting of them. The Democrats can use that ill-feeling to try to make themselves look like the party on your side. They are all the same. There is no right or wrong, there are no real clear differences in anything that actually gets accomplished. They only differences are in the delivery of the empty promises and outright lies that are tossed around during the election season. I would have you and anyone else that gives a real damn to take a good hard look one year from now, eighteen months maybe. Write down every thing that any candidate says he or she will do and compare, there will be no differences. First of all, it takes more than one man, we have a system that allows for action stopping arguments to be, not an excuse, but an excepted reason for lack of substantial accomplishment. I can hardly bear to listen to the liberals because the line they have recently chosen insults the intelligence of all of us, but the other side is just as boldly lying and hoping to get away with it. Until the next American Revolution there will never be a Government for or by The people. I believe, although fun to read, you may have over stated your point. I think that the candidates matter not at all. The Ideas that are being pressed forward by the liberal wing of the Democratic party is that the Government knows better how to take care of you than you do. Therefore, the more involved they become in your everyday expectations of life, the better for you, them, and the world. I strongly disagree with that. That’s all I care about in this whole election, truly, the parties are equally weak, equally flawed and equally dishonest about it. Every democracy in history has fallen in the same way that the Obama’s and Oberman’s of this world will have us fall. Not by fighting, not by struggling against an enemy worthy of our attention, but voluntarily, one little Government bureaucracy at a time. We will give up our rights with a smile. We will stand by and let the government tell us where we must educate our children, which Doctor we can go to. We will gladly say okay when asked to let the Government spy on those it thinks to be “dangerous”. Before you know it, They will be tasering some kid for asking a candidate a political question. Oh yeah, we’re there. The republicans have really screwed up over the last several years by exposing too much of the “us versus them” agenda. So people are upset and distrusting of them. The Democrats can use that ill-feeling to try to make themselves look like the party on your side. They are all the same. There is no right or wrong, there are no real clear differences in anything that actually gets accomplished. They only differences are in the delivery of the empty promises and outright lies that are tossed around during the election season. I would have you and anyone else that gives a real damn to take a good hard look one year from now, eighteen months maybe. Write down every thing that any candidate says he or she will do and compare, there will be no differences. First of all, it takes more than one man, we have a system that allows for action stopping arguments to be, not an excuse, but an excepted reason for lack of substantial accomplishment. I can hardly bear to listen to the liberals because the line they have recently chosen insults the intelligence of all of us, but the other side is just as boldly lying and hoping to get away with it. Until the next American Revolution there will never be a Government for or by The people.

]]> By: T. http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/#comment-1230 T. Tue, 03 Jun 2008 03:15:30 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=76#comment-1230 One stream-of-consciousness draft and I'm done. I don't even bother with the auto spellcheck. As long as the ideas get across I'm cool. One stream-of-consciousness draft and I’m done. I don’t even bother with the auto spellcheck. As long as the ideas get across I’m cool.

]]> By: Scratch http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/#comment-1229 Scratch Tue, 03 Jun 2008 03:07:02 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=76#comment-1229 Good article. However, it would be more effective if you checked your grammar and spelling. Auto spell-checkers don't catch everything, you know. Good article. However, it would be more effective if you checked your grammar and spelling. Auto spell-checkers don’t catch everything, you know.

]]> By: Rtother http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/#comment-1218 Rtother Sun, 01 Jun 2008 00:16:44 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=76#comment-1218 Have you ever read Michael Blowhard's <a href="http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2003/05/the_arts_litany.html" rel="nofollow">Arts Litany</a>? He trends on a similar topic, but focuses more on the artsy types. Razib also wrote a <a href="http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/05/what-is-conservatism.php" rel="nofollow">good post</a> about Liberalism and Conservativism. Just fyi. Have you ever read Michael Blowhard’s Arts Litany? He trends on a similar topic, but focuses more on the artsy types.

Razib also wrote a good post about Liberalism and Conservativism.

Just fyi.

]]> By: Rick http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/#comment-1215 Rick Thu, 29 May 2008 20:36:37 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=76#comment-1215 Regarding Stuff White People Like - hilarious blog, but as you point out, it really should be called "stuff upper class white liberals like". But yeah I see the difference you are pointing out with those that are more progressive, but I also think its an overly defensive position to take - one that is common among conservatives and fox news fans these days. I think there is a great amount worth celebrating about the American tradition. Unfortunately, the current administration represents most of what IS to be apologized for. To be slightly simplistic, the reason the terrorists hate us and exist is because of the "foreign policy" that we are currently involved with. Zero diplomacy. Other than misogyny, which i dont find particularly relevant these days, I think exploitation, oppression, repression and intolerance are all things that we should acknowledge are part of our history and we should try to avoid moving forward. To ignore them, or deny them would only ensure, as we have seen in the past 7 years, that they be repeated and even fucking encouraged. Regarding Stuff White People Like - hilarious blog, but as you point out, it really should be called “stuff upper class white liberals like”.

But yeah I see the difference you are pointing out with those that are more progressive, but I also think its an overly defensive position to take - one that is common among conservatives and fox news fans these days.

I think there is a great amount worth celebrating about the American tradition. Unfortunately, the current administration represents most of what IS to be apologized for. To be slightly simplistic, the reason the terrorists hate us and exist is because of the “foreign policy” that we are currently involved with. Zero diplomacy.

Other than misogyny, which i dont find particularly relevant these days, I think exploitation, oppression, repression and intolerance are all things that we should acknowledge are part of our history and we should try to avoid moving forward. To ignore them, or deny them would only ensure, as we have seen in the past 7 years, that they be repeated and even fucking encouraged.

]]> By: T http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/#comment-1214 T Thu, 29 May 2008 19:23:23 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=76#comment-1214 <blockquote>i just disagree that it is like the whole - or even most of the basis for all liberal thought.</blockquote> I agree that it's not the basis for all liberal thought. That's why I tried to use the word "progressive" as often as possible, because I am talking about a specific type of liberal (as opposed to, say, a classical liberal or moderate liberal). The progressive liberal is the one that sees that sees western traditions as primarily having a legacy of exploitation, oppression, misogyny, repression and intolerance. These are the Michael Moores and Al Sharptons of the world, the type that believe that the western tradition is primarily something to be apologized for, not something to celebrate. Unfortunately this is the exact type of liberal that has been playing a bigger and bigger in the Democratic party with each passing year. Great examples of progressive liberals can be seen on <a href="http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">Stuff White People Like</a>.

i just disagree that it is like the whole - or even most of the basis for all liberal thought.

I agree that it’s not the basis for all liberal thought. That’s why I tried to use the word “progressive” as often as possible, because I am talking about a specific type of liberal (as opposed to, say, a classical liberal or moderate liberal). The progressive liberal is the one that sees that sees western traditions as primarily having a legacy of exploitation, oppression, misogyny, repression and intolerance. These are the Michael Moores and Al Sharptons of the world, the type that believe that the western tradition is primarily something to be apologized for, not something to celebrate. Unfortunately this is the exact type of liberal that has been playing a bigger and bigger in the Democratic party with each passing year.

Great examples of progressive liberals can be seen on Stuff White People Like.

]]> By: Rick http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/#comment-1213 Rick Thu, 29 May 2008 19:09:56 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=76#comment-1213 sure it can be both of them. im sure many liberals (conservatives too) have some sort of "white guilt", for example. you know, with slavery, colonialism, and all that. i just disagree that it is like the whole - or even most of the basis for all liberal thought. sure it can be both of them. im sure many liberals (conservatives too) have some sort of “white guilt”, for example. you know, with slavery, colonialism, and all that. i just disagree that it is like the whole - or even most of the basis for all liberal thought.

]]> By: johnny five http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/#comment-1212 johnny five Thu, 29 May 2008 18:50:52 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=76#comment-1212 rick: <i>all the bullet points are valid general subject points, but reducing them to “one is inherently better than another” is not only pointless and simplistic, in many of your examples its just not something most liberals would agree with.</i> the issue is not whether liberals <i>agree</i> with these dicta, but, rather, whether they <i>act in accordance</i> with them. the answer to the latter is a resounding yes. to infer the true motivation behind an observed pattern of behavior, even when that motivation contravenes <i>stated</i> principles, does not a logical fallacy make. or: actions speak louder than words. rick:
all the bullet points are valid general subject points, but reducing them to “one is inherently better than another” is not only pointless and simplistic, in many of your examples its just not something most liberals would agree with.

the issue is not whether liberals agree with these dicta, but, rather, whether they act in accordance with them.
the answer to the latter is a resounding yes.

to infer the true motivation behind an observed pattern of behavior, even when that motivation contravenes stated principles, does not a logical fallacy make.
or:
actions speak louder than words.

]]> By: T http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/#comment-1211 T Thu, 29 May 2008 17:43:37 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=76#comment-1211 Can't it be both a case of caring about someone other than yourself AND feeling guilty? I don't really see how they are mutually exclusive concepts. In fact, I'd argue that a level of empathy for others is a prerequisite for guilt to begin with. You can't feel guilty about anything in the first place if you only care about yourself. Can’t it be both a case of caring about someone other than yourself AND feeling guilty? I don’t really see how they are mutually exclusive concepts. In fact, I’d argue that a level of empathy for others is a prerequisite for guilt to begin with. You can’t feel guilty about anything in the first place if you only care about yourself.

]]> By: Rick http://therawness.com/the-problem-with-democrats-the-progressive-liberal-moral-continuum/#comment-1210 Rick Thu, 29 May 2008 17:39:13 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=76#comment-1210 i dont remember saying "progressive liberals" have a monopoly on it. i was simply correcting the false idea that "guilt" had anything to do with the motives behind many liberal ideals. i dont remember saying “progressive liberals” have a monopoly on it. i was simply correcting the false idea that “guilt” had anything to do with the motives behind many liberal ideals.

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