<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The One Drive: Immortality, Part 1</title>
	<atom:link href="http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/</link>
	<description>human nature and sexual politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 05 Sep 2010 16:36:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2503</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2503</guid>
		<description>T -

This is revolutionary stuff.

js</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T -</p>
<p>This is revolutionary stuff.</p>
<p>js</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: From Around the Web: Worth a Look &#171; Vox Nova</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2483</link>
		<dc:creator>From Around the Web: Worth a Look &#171; Vox Nova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2483</guid>
		<description>[...] Jagr has found a home in Russia. Roissy says that the climb of status begins at birth. T. has similar thoughts. A theory of everything. Let us hope modernist architecture dies. Pat Buchanan on who killed the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jagr has found a home in Russia. Roissy says that the climb of status begins at birth. T. has similar thoughts. A theory of everything. Let us hope modernist architecture dies. Pat Buchanan on who killed the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laikastes</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2478</link>
		<dc:creator>Laikastes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2478</guid>
		<description>T.
I&#039;m not a practicing Buddhist, but the Buddhist view of things tends to correspond pretty closely to my own perceptions. Any knowledgeable Buddhists out there should feel free to correct me if I misspeak below.

In Christianity, one?s current personality is permanent, will survive death, and will exist eternally. This is basically what Christians understand by the word ?soul?. 

But Buddhism states that there is no ?soul? in the Christian sense. Buddhists state that there is some small, indestructible bit that survives death and gets reincarnated, but that bit does NOT include the ego-construct (personality). Instead, a new ego-construct is created at each rebirth. So, when the bit reincarnates, it forgets itself, so to speak, as well as its previous incarnations. The current ego-construct then sees itself as the thing that is or should be permanent. 

This obvious error leads to ?grasping? ? fleeing its own finiteness, the ego-construct seeks something to which it can attach itself in order to assure its continued existence, even though that is not truly possible. This leads to suffering, and thus, to the basic Buddhist statement that life is suffering. The process of meditation and enlightenment is the conscious, long-term effort to overcome this grasping and to ?wake up? the indestructible bit. 

This idea of grasping is what ties in with this post and the follow-up one as well. The ego-construct seeks some way to perpetuate its own existence through things such as religion, children, fame, wealth, or political power.

One of my favorite writers, Ken Wilber, addresses this issue in one of his earlier books called ?&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Atman-Project-Transpersonal-Human-Development/dp/0835607305/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1231166304&amp;sr=1-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Atman Project&lt;/a&gt;?. He has refined some of his methodological approaches since this book came out, so those unfamiliar with Wilber shouldn?t use this as a general introduction to his work.

Laikastes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T.<br />
I&#8217;m not a practicing Buddhist, but the Buddhist view of things tends to correspond pretty closely to my own perceptions. Any knowledgeable Buddhists out there should feel free to correct me if I misspeak below.</p>
<p>In Christianity, one?s current personality is permanent, will survive death, and will exist eternally. This is basically what Christians understand by the word ?soul?. </p>
<p>But Buddhism states that there is no ?soul? in the Christian sense. Buddhists state that there is some small, indestructible bit that survives death and gets reincarnated, but that bit does NOT include the ego-construct (personality). Instead, a new ego-construct is created at each rebirth. So, when the bit reincarnates, it forgets itself, so to speak, as well as its previous incarnations. The current ego-construct then sees itself as the thing that is or should be permanent. </p>
<p>This obvious error leads to ?grasping? ? fleeing its own finiteness, the ego-construct seeks something to which it can attach itself in order to assure its continued existence, even though that is not truly possible. This leads to suffering, and thus, to the basic Buddhist statement that life is suffering. The process of meditation and enlightenment is the conscious, long-term effort to overcome this grasping and to ?wake up? the indestructible bit. </p>
<p>This idea of grasping is what ties in with this post and the follow-up one as well. The ego-construct seeks some way to perpetuate its own existence through things such as religion, children, fame, wealth, or political power.</p>
<p>One of my favorite writers, Ken Wilber, addresses this issue in one of his earlier books called ?<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Atman-Project-Transpersonal-Human-Development/dp/0835607305/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1231166304&amp;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow">The Atman Project</a>?. He has refined some of his methodological approaches since this book came out, so those unfamiliar with Wilber shouldn?t use this as a general introduction to his work.</p>
<p>Laikastes</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: random passerby</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2434</link>
		<dc:creator>random passerby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 04:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2434</guid>
		<description>Simply avoiding death doesn&#039;t mean you&#039;re trying to achieve immortality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simply avoiding death doesn&#8217;t mean you&#8217;re trying to achieve immortality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2433</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2433</guid>
		<description>J5, what you are saying is true but it can still fit into the immortality theory.  I believe that people settle for whatever form of immortality and distraction from death they can get.  People who aren&#039;t good looking, wealthy, intelligent, socially adept or high status enough to engage in hedonism tend to channel their immortality urges and distractions from death into different directions, like extra focus on religion and lots of time watching mind-numbing TV, one of the best death distractors around.  Since elites have more options for exercising their immortality urges and distracting themselves from death, the elites as you point out will not settle for nonhedonistic ways satisfy their drives for immortality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J5, what you are saying is true but it can still fit into the immortality theory.  I believe that people settle for whatever form of immortality and distraction from death they can get.  People who aren&#8217;t good looking, wealthy, intelligent, socially adept or high status enough to engage in hedonism tend to channel their immortality urges and distractions from death into different directions, like extra focus on religion and lots of time watching mind-numbing TV, one of the best death distractors around.  Since elites have more options for exercising their immortality urges and distracting themselves from death, the elites as you point out will not settle for nonhedonistic ways satisfy their drives for immortality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2432</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2432</guid>
		<description>random passerby - It affects different people to different degrees.  But even just mere survival falls under the immortality theory.  The fact that you are still alive today means you consciously and subconsciously try to avoid death every day.  If you avoid oncoming cars when you cross the street, the immortality theory still applies to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>random passerby &#8211; It affects different people to different degrees.  But even just mere survival falls under the immortality theory.  The fact that you are still alive today means you consciously and subconsciously try to avoid death every day.  If you avoid oncoming cars when you cross the street, the immortality theory still applies to you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2431</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2431</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to make a post specifically about reading material.  It&#039;ll link to the older reading lists as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to make a post specifically about reading material.  It&#8217;ll link to the older reading lists as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: paully</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2429</link>
		<dc:creator>paully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 15:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2429</guid>
		<description>T,
Immortality seems a little dramatic -- I prefer to use the word &quot;relevant&quot;.  People want to matter, even if it&#039;s something paltry or horrendous.  No one wants to be irrelevant.  Even a suicide bomber is relevant in their own way -- the promise of an afterlife isnt enough, because s/he knows they can go there without blowing themself up.  However, they know they will be exhaulted in their community and enshrined, etc, where before they were poor with no prospects in life.  Hell, the internet is a nice method for people to maintain the delusion of relevance -- myspace anyone?

When I look at some of the weird things people do, looking at it in terms of an attempt to be relevant sometimes explains a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T,<br />
Immortality seems a little dramatic &#8212; I prefer to use the word &#8220;relevant&#8221;.  People want to matter, even if it&#8217;s something paltry or horrendous.  No one wants to be irrelevant.  Even a suicide bomber is relevant in their own way &#8212; the promise of an afterlife isnt enough, because s/he knows they can go there without blowing themself up.  However, they know they will be exhaulted in their community and enshrined, etc, where before they were poor with no prospects in life.  Hell, the internet is a nice method for people to maintain the delusion of relevance &#8212; myspace anyone?</p>
<p>When I look at some of the weird things people do, looking at it in terms of an attempt to be relevant sometimes explains a lot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mike says</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2427</link>
		<dc:creator>mike says</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2427</guid>
		<description>Altruism creates immortality through the memory of you that the person you helped will carry on with them long after you die.  They tell their kids, friends, etc.  Maybe you get a plaque on a wall somewhere, a statue, a scholarship named after you, and so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Altruism creates immortality through the memory of you that the person you helped will carry on with them long after you die.  They tell their kids, friends, etc.  Maybe you get a plaque on a wall somewhere, a statue, a scholarship named after you, and so on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: johnny five</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2424</link>
		<dc:creator>johnny five</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 06:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2424</guid>
		<description>some individuals&#039; drive for status or fame nearly equals the suicide bombers&#039; urge for immortality.

at one point (i can&#039;t recall the particulars of the study), a large sample of olympic hopefuls was asked whether they would become the world champion of their sport in exchange for the loss of their life at age 35, a question to which the &lt;i&gt;huge&lt;/i&gt; majority of those polled responded in the affirmative.

the study was meant to be a veiled (and overly melodramatic) proxy for the athletes&#039; willingness to use performance-enhancing drugs with completely unknown side effects.

--

also,
&lt;blockquote&gt;secular and athiestic people and societies have little to no faith in the existence of immortality through an afterlife or reincarnation, so instead they channel all their energy into the urge to distract themselves from death with no afterlife, often through excessive hedonism, substance abuse or chasing as much power, status, sex and fame as they can during their lifetimes.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
you&#039;re ignoring some extremely influential confounding variables.

specifically, while i agree that an individual&#039;s &quot;urge to distract [him/herself]  ... through excessive hedonism ... or chasing ... power, status, sex, and fame&quot; is doubtless fomented by a society that itself encourages such primitive instincts, we would be remiss to forget that those instincts are ... &lt;i&gt;primitive&lt;/i&gt;.  they are present in abundance in the psyche of any normal human - a fact that you&#039;ve adumbrated numerous times on this very blog - and it would be foolish to ignore their influence.

indeed, those instincts are regulated more by innate limiting factors, such as an individual&#039;s looks, game, wealth, build, social status, intelligence, and the like, than by society &lt;i&gt;per se&lt;/i&gt;.

for instance, extremely religious societies generally forbid the sort of hedonism you&#039;ve described.  most of those societies&#039; members will toe the line, living austere lives without cavil, but &lt;i&gt;only because they are not good-looking, wealthy, intelligent, socially adept, or high-status enough to do otherwise without great effort and peril.&lt;/i&gt;

show me a society in which the great majority refrains from hedonism of any sort, and i&#039;ll show you a society in which the ?lites do exactly the opposite.
to argue that the strictures of society can actually snuff out hedonistic desires, especially in those individuals best equipped to realize those desires, would be akin to arguing that a sufficient degree of feminism will cause men to start finding ball-busting career women more attractive than young nubiles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some individuals&#8217; drive for status or fame nearly equals the suicide bombers&#8217; urge for immortality.</p>
<p>at one point (i can&#8217;t recall the particulars of the study), a large sample of olympic hopefuls was asked whether they would become the world champion of their sport in exchange for the loss of their life at age 35, a question to which the <i>huge</i> majority of those polled responded in the affirmative.</p>
<p>the study was meant to be a veiled (and overly melodramatic) proxy for the athletes&#8217; willingness to use performance-enhancing drugs with completely unknown side effects.</p>
<p>&#8211;</p>
<p>also,</p>
<blockquote><p>secular and athiestic people and societies have little to no faith in the existence of immortality through an afterlife or reincarnation, so instead they channel all their energy into the urge to distract themselves from death with no afterlife, often through excessive hedonism, substance abuse or chasing as much power, status, sex and fame as they can during their lifetimes.</p></blockquote>
<p>you&#8217;re ignoring some extremely influential confounding variables.</p>
<p>specifically, while i agree that an individual&#8217;s &#8220;urge to distract [him/herself]  &#8230; through excessive hedonism &#8230; or chasing &#8230; power, status, sex, and fame&#8221; is doubtless fomented by a society that itself encourages such primitive instincts, we would be remiss to forget that those instincts are &#8230; <i>primitive</i>.  they are present in abundance in the psyche of any normal human &#8211; a fact that you&#8217;ve adumbrated numerous times on this very blog &#8211; and it would be foolish to ignore their influence.</p>
<p>indeed, those instincts are regulated more by innate limiting factors, such as an individual&#8217;s looks, game, wealth, build, social status, intelligence, and the like, than by society <i>per se</i>.</p>
<p>for instance, extremely religious societies generally forbid the sort of hedonism you&#8217;ve described.  most of those societies&#8217; members will toe the line, living austere lives without cavil, but <i>only because they are not good-looking, wealthy, intelligent, socially adept, or high-status enough to do otherwise without great effort and peril.</i></p>
<p>show me a society in which the great majority refrains from hedonism of any sort, and i&#8217;ll show you a society in which the ?lites do exactly the opposite.<br />
to argue that the strictures of society can actually snuff out hedonistic desires, especially in those individuals best equipped to realize those desires, would be akin to arguing that a sufficient degree of feminism will cause men to start finding ball-busting career women more attractive than young nubiles.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: random passerby</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2423</link>
		<dc:creator>random passerby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2423</guid>
		<description>I fully expect to die without ever achieving anything that anyone would care about after I&#039;m gone, I have no desire to reproduce and whether or not there is an afterlife is of no consequence to me. Your immortality theory probably doesn&#039;t explain my life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fully expect to die without ever achieving anything that anyone would care about after I&#8217;m gone, I have no desire to reproduce and whether or not there is an afterlife is of no consequence to me. Your immortality theory probably doesn&#8217;t explain my life.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: EAS</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/the-one-drive-immortality-part-1/#comment-2422</link>
		<dc:creator>EAS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=404#comment-2422</guid>
		<description>I spent some time over the weekend thinking about what you wrote.  Specifically, I was looking for a counter-example.  Your theory is pretty good, I had a hard time finding one.

How do you explain altruism?  Obviously not the Bill-Gates or Warren-Buffet kind, because they&#039;re looking for fame, rather nameless charity.  Anything from an anonymous donation to some cancer research team to dropping a fiver in a homeless guy&#039;s cap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent some time over the weekend thinking about what you wrote.  Specifically, I was looking for a counter-example.  Your theory is pretty good, I had a hard time finding one.</p>
<p>How do you explain altruism?  Obviously not the Bill-Gates or Warren-Buffet kind, because they&#8217;re looking for fame, rather nameless charity.  Anything from an anonymous donation to some cancer research team to dropping a fiver in a homeless guy&#8217;s cap.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
