Comments on: The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 4 http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/ human nature and sexual politics Sun, 05 Sep 2010 16:36:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: New York « Misadventures of Vincent Ignatius http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4537 New York « Misadventures of Vincent Ignatius Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:31:32 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4537 [...] Rawness is always insightful.  The myth of the middle class alpha male.  Possibly my favorite [...] [...] Rawness is always insightful.  The myth of the middle class alpha male.  Possibly my favorite [...]

]]> By: azuzuru http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4509 azuzuru Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:44:56 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4509 Hi, new to the blog. I like it. The comments about the writing here being a little wordy are right on. Nothing wrong with a wordy style. A general rule, though, is you will communicate more effectively and more people will read if you can communicate more concisely. Brevity is next to Godliness. What works for me is to write, then re-read and edit by eliminating words I don't need. I've taken a crack at re-writing the warning, below. [Warning: If you are one of the readers who thought the wordiness and repetitiveness of Part 3 or any of the previous installments outweighed the useful information contained in them, or worse believed they had no useful information at all, don't bother continuing this post. It's more of the same stuff you hate. The rest of you, dig in.] [Warning: Don't bother reading this post if you thought that the wordiness of previous posts outweighed the useful content. My style hasn't changed and it's more of the stuff you hate. The rest of you, dig in.] Hi, new to the blog. I like it.

The comments about the writing here being a little wordy are right on. Nothing wrong with a wordy style. A general rule, though, is you will communicate more effectively and more people will read if you can communicate more concisely. Brevity is next to Godliness.

What works for me is to write, then re-read and edit by eliminating words I don’t need. I’ve taken a crack at re-writing the warning, below.

[Warning: If you are one of the readers who thought the wordiness and repetitiveness of Part 3 or any of the previous installments outweighed the useful information contained in them, or worse believed they had no useful information at all, don't bother continuing this post. It's more of the same stuff you hate. The rest of you, dig in.]

[Warning: Don't bother reading this post if you thought that the wordiness of previous posts outweighed the useful content. My style hasn't changed and it's more of the stuff you hate. The rest of you, dig in.]

]]> By: Captain Kirk4 http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4503 Captain Kirk4 Sat, 13 Mar 2010 02:04:20 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4503 Could the effect of monagamy on society as opposed to polygamy be that over time people are domesticated in a very similar process that occurs with animal husbandry? I was watching a show on some environmentalists in South Africa preserving Cheetas and they had an orphaned litter of cubs, some were very wild but one was very timid and tame becoming sort of the "pet" of the people raising them. The wild ones were fast tracked to be reintroduced to the wild but they kept the tame one on the ranch. Now in the dog eat dog world the tame one would probably have been killed and never given a chance to pass on it's genes, but here people interfered in nature selecting the animal for it's beta attributes. I will tell you big cats are nothing like the house cats we are familiar with, I held a young Tiger once and that thing was WILD, hyperactive, overcharged as opposed to the cats I had growing up who were calm and passive. The theory is that Egyptians tolerated the betas as rodent control but killed off the more aggressive alphas of the wild cats that hung around their farms leading to domestic cats. Similar processes led to dogs, cattle, sheep, corn, etc. Man steped in and allowed individuals of a species that would not normally have had reproductive sucess to survive leading to radical changes in the population from their wild relatives. By allowing generation after generation of Beta Males to pass on their genes perhaps monagamy created a calmer, henpecked version of man who obidiently wakes up at six am on the weekends at the behest of his wife who wants to take the whole family to church. The type of people who return sacks of money to the lost and found instead of keeping it. The kind of people who become nerds and build rockets to the moon instead of hanging out on the street corner all day drunk trying to scam tourists out of money. With feminism all the women chase after the same few sociopathic smooth talkers producing a similar result to the polygamy mentioned in the Incas where a few men hogged all the women to themselves. Ironically women are largely unaware of this and talk as if we live in some sexual free for all where "free love" is being distributed around equally amongst the men, when in reality as I saw in high school it is a few players scoring all the chicks with the bulk of the boys as little more than betas left with their dicks in their hands. I heard a woman caller on the Tom Leykis show when he brought up the topic of legalizing prostitution. Her comment betrayed it all "My God, this isn't the 50's anymore. Any guy who needs a hooker in this day of age..." In reality sex was probably a lot easier to come by in the 50's than now. Women voters have replaced city administrators who turned a blind eye to brothels operated by the mob with uptight nanny state "no sex, no driving home after a night drinking with the boys" aparacheks who give us this BS anti-male dystopia we now live in. As late as 1992 in Cicero Illinois the mob ran the strip joints and for around $100 you could screw one of them in several rooms in the back. It was almost as good as Bangkok. Unfortunately that changed and we now live in a world more akin to a George Orwell novel. And they won't stop there, these do gooders are trying to tell the general public, who never travel, that all the 25 year old, tatooed,stretch marked single mothers I see in the Thai go-go bars are "child sex slaves" in an attempt to ruin that too. Could the effect of monagamy on society as opposed to polygamy be that over time people are domesticated in a very similar process that occurs with animal husbandry? I was watching a show on some environmentalists in South Africa preserving Cheetas and they had an orphaned litter of cubs, some were very wild but one was very timid and tame becoming sort of the “pet” of the people raising them. The wild ones were fast tracked to be reintroduced to the wild but they kept the tame one on the ranch. Now in the dog eat dog world the tame one would probably have been killed and never given a chance to pass on it’s genes, but here people interfered in nature selecting the animal for it’s beta attributes. I will tell you big cats are nothing like the house cats we are familiar with, I held a young Tiger once and that thing was WILD, hyperactive, overcharged as opposed to the cats I had growing up who were calm and passive. The theory is that Egyptians tolerated the betas as rodent control but killed off the more aggressive alphas of the wild cats that hung around their farms leading to domestic cats. Similar processes led to dogs, cattle, sheep, corn, etc. Man steped in and allowed individuals of a species that would not normally have had reproductive sucess to survive leading to radical changes in the population from their wild relatives. By allowing generation after generation of Beta Males to pass on their genes perhaps monagamy created a calmer, henpecked version of man who obidiently wakes up at six am on the weekends at the behest of his wife who wants to take the whole family to church. The type of people who return sacks of money to the lost and found instead of keeping it. The kind of people who become nerds and build rockets to the moon instead of hanging out on the street corner all day drunk trying to scam tourists out of money. With feminism all the women chase after the same few sociopathic smooth talkers producing a similar result to the polygamy mentioned in the Incas where a few men hogged all the women to themselves. Ironically women are largely unaware of this and talk as if we live in some sexual free for all where “free love” is being distributed around equally amongst the men, when in reality as I saw in high school it is a few players scoring all the chicks with the bulk of the boys as little more than betas left with their dicks in their hands. I heard a woman caller on the Tom Leykis show when he brought up the topic of legalizing prostitution. Her comment betrayed it all “My God, this isn’t the 50′s anymore. Any guy who needs a hooker in this day of age…” In reality sex was probably a lot easier to come by in the 50′s than now. Women voters have replaced city administrators who turned a blind eye to brothels operated by the mob with uptight nanny state “no sex, no driving home after a night drinking with the boys” aparacheks who give us this BS anti-male dystopia we now live in. As late as 1992 in Cicero Illinois the mob ran the strip joints and for around $100 you could screw one of them in several rooms in the back. It was almost as good as Bangkok. Unfortunately that changed and we now live in a world more akin to a George Orwell novel. And they won’t stop there, these do gooders are trying to tell the general public, who never travel, that all the 25 year old, tatooed,stretch marked single mothers I see in the Thai go-go bars are “child sex slaves” in an attempt to ruin that too.

]]> By: People are people http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4491 People are people Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:23:19 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4491 [...] and men especially, into alphas and betas (like a certain blogger, ahem Allah ahem, does) but this series on the “myth of the middle class alpha male” has been entirely fascinating to me. [...] [...] and men especially, into alphas and betas (like a certain blogger, ahem Allah ahem, does) but this series on the “myth of the middle class alpha male” has been entirely fascinating to me. [...]

]]> By: Thursday http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4458 Thursday Mon, 08 Mar 2010 09:48:43 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4458 <i>That’s what modern society is, a Leviathan where we trade in fear of the chaos of nature where lower status men live in constantly fear for their lives and have little hope of reproducing thanks to incredibly powerful high status men, for the infinitely preferable fear of the Leviathan, which at least promises the assurance of peace, better protection of their lives and better chances for the average man to reproduce with a quality woman.</i> Among hunter-gatherers, the closest thing we humans have had to a state of nature had very egalitarian distribution of male reproduction. It is true that there was lots of violence and men did have to fear for their lives, but lower status men weren't that much more likely to die from violence than higher status men. The transition to civilization brought a decrease in violence, but also made polygamy possible. That’s what modern society is, a Leviathan where we trade in fear of the chaos of nature where lower status men live in constantly fear for their lives and have little hope of reproducing thanks to incredibly powerful high status men, for the infinitely preferable fear of the Leviathan, which at least promises the assurance of peace, better protection of their lives and better chances for the average man to reproduce with a quality woman.

Among hunter-gatherers, the closest thing we humans have had to a state of nature had very egalitarian distribution of male reproduction. It is true that there was lots of violence and men did have to fear for their lives, but lower status men weren’t that much more likely to die from violence than higher status men.

The transition to civilization brought a decrease in violence, but also made polygamy possible.

]]> By: Linkage is Good for You: Premature Congratulations Edition | In Mala Fide http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4454 Linkage is Good for You: Premature Congratulations Edition | In Mala Fide Sun, 07 Mar 2010 19:35:45 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4454 [...] T. aka Ricky Raw – “Rape“, “The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 4” [...] [...] T. aka Ricky Raw – “Rape“, “The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 4” [...]

]]> By: RedpoleQ http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4453 RedpoleQ Sun, 07 Mar 2010 19:34:59 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4453 Great post. This touches on a lot of things that I've been talking about with some of my guys out here in Korea and Seoul. I totally agree that Democracy, guns and industrialization are the primary contributors to the rise of the average man. A lot of this is talked about in The Sovereign Individual, but not in relation to dating. What's interesting being out here in Asia is that most guys come out here and they are suddenly swimming in pussy and they think they're hot shit not realizing that they're only tapping the girls that can't get high status males here, but don't want to settle for the standard issue beta-male either. I'm curious to get your take on the difference between high-status and alpha because I think people confuse the two and that leads them to a lot of wrong conclusions about women so that you see high-status beta males get top quality girls while low status alphas don't. Often too you see that women will marry/date the high-status beta-male, while simultaneously "sport fucking"(as you call it) the lower status more alpha male. Definitely when I look at my own experience over the years, I see where alpha doesn't necessarily help. I've spent a lot of time in clubs over the years and have been in about 7 or 8 minor altercations and never has my involvement endeared me to the women witnessing. And usually, the guy who's most wounded gets the sympathy while the guy who whooped his ass is a monster(the social conditioning you talked about). .-= RedpoleQ´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.redpoleq.com/redpoleq/quick-tip-for-meeting-women-6-the-basics-of-compliance.html" rel="nofollow">Quick Tip for Meeting Women #6: The Basics of Compliance</a> =-. Great post. This touches on a lot of things that I’ve been talking about with some of my guys out here in Korea and Seoul.

I totally agree that Democracy, guns and industrialization are the primary contributors to the rise of the average man. A lot of this is talked about in The Sovereign Individual, but not in relation to dating.

What’s interesting being out here in Asia is that most guys come out here and they are suddenly swimming in pussy and they think they’re hot shit not realizing that they’re only tapping the girls that can’t get high status males here, but don’t want to settle for the standard issue beta-male either.

I’m curious to get your take on the difference between high-status and alpha because I think people confuse the two and that leads them to a lot of wrong conclusions about women so that you see high-status beta males get top quality girls while low status alphas don’t. Often too you see that women will marry/date the high-status beta-male, while simultaneously “sport fucking”(as you call it) the lower status more alpha male.

Definitely when I look at my own experience over the years, I see where alpha doesn’t necessarily help. I’ve spent a lot of time in clubs over the years and have been in about 7 or 8 minor altercations and never has my involvement endeared me to the women witnessing. And usually, the guy who’s most wounded gets the sympathy while the guy who whooped his ass is a monster(the social conditioning you talked about).
RedpoleQ´s last blog ..Quick Tip for Meeting Women #6: The Basics of Compliance My ComLuv Profile

]]> By: How To Attract Girls - Helpful Tricks And Tips | lonely and desperate http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4449 How To Attract Girls - Helpful Tricks And Tips | lonely and desperate Sun, 07 Mar 2010 14:09:02 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4449 [...] The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 4 [...] [...] The Myth of the Middle Class Alpha Male, Part 4 [...]

]]> By: T. AKA Ricky Raw http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4441 T. AKA Ricky Raw Sat, 06 Mar 2010 03:53:59 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4441 Anonymous, dude, I know tone doesn't come across well in written word, but relax, you didn't "hurt my feelings," and the opening paragraph wasn't directed solely at you. The opening paragraph in this piece was just warning anyone who didn't like the last installment (and it wasn't just you, there were others) to not bother with this one, because everything people complained about from the last installment went double for this one: extreme length and repetition. I can take constructive criticism by the way. Look at this very comments thread where Reader pointed out a mistake I made and I promptly thanked him and edited the original piece. And believe it or not, I also had your response in mind when doing this installment and tried to make my point clearer so people wouldn't misinterpret it like you and others did before. I don't have problems with people not liking my stuff or disagreeing with it, but I admittedly can get frustrated when I feel people misinterpret. Anonymous, dude, I know tone doesn’t come across well in written word, but relax, you didn’t “hurt my feelings,” and the opening paragraph wasn’t directed solely at you. The opening paragraph in this piece was just warning anyone who didn’t like the last installment (and it wasn’t just you, there were others) to not bother with this one, because everything people complained about from the last installment went double for this one: extreme length and repetition.

I can take constructive criticism by the way. Look at this very comments thread where Reader pointed out a mistake I made and I promptly thanked him and edited the original piece. And believe it or not, I also had your response in mind when doing this installment and tried to make my point clearer so people wouldn’t misinterpret it like you and others did before.

I don’t have problems with people not liking my stuff or disagreeing with it, but I admittedly can get frustrated when I feel people misinterpret.

]]> By: Anonymous http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4440 Anonymous Sat, 06 Mar 2010 03:41:11 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4440 I kinda feel bad because it seems like I hurt your feelings with my comments on the last installment. Ricky, you are so insightful. I am really looking forward to the parts I can actually use! I do not hate these articles Ricky, I've liked them enough to read every word! Hopefully next time someone criticizes you you will make constructive use of it. Or, if you decide not to, which you may, at least don't bother to feel bad about it. It's not worth the effort to feel bad. I kinda feel bad because it seems like I hurt your feelings with my comments on the last installment. Ricky, you are so insightful. I am really looking forward to the parts I can actually use! I do not hate these articles Ricky, I’ve liked them enough to read every word! Hopefully next time someone criticizes you you will make constructive use of it. Or, if you decide not to, which you may, at least don’t bother to feel bad about it. It’s not worth the effort to feel bad.

]]> By: Dhanil http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4437 Dhanil Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:45:11 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4437 Very good way to put things. Since you've mentioned Brazil (my home) I have to say that, besides the favelas which are a sort of Sovereignty bubble, the rest of the country is halfway from becoming westernized in the alpha/beta sense. With events such as the World Cup and the Olympics, as well as the conversion into a market economy goes deeper, there is a growing pressure for the improvement of the proxies (as you put it). That is specially true where there are more German and Italian immigrants. So the players and PUAs who read Roosh's blog and are interested in the delights of interacting Brazilian women should hurry. I'm afraid it won't last more than a couple decades. Very good way to put things. Since you’ve mentioned Brazil (my home) I have to say that, besides the favelas which are a sort of Sovereignty bubble, the rest of the country is halfway from becoming westernized in the alpha/beta sense.
With events such as the World Cup and the Olympics, as well as the conversion into a market economy goes deeper, there is a growing pressure for the improvement of the proxies (as you put it). That is specially true where there are more German and Italian immigrants.
So the players and PUAs who read Roosh’s blog and are interested in the delights of interacting Brazilian women should hurry. I’m afraid it won’t last more than a couple decades.

]]> By: Entropy http://therawness.com/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-alpha-male-part-4-2/#comment-4430 Entropy Fri, 05 Mar 2010 03:21:21 +0000 http://therawness.com/?p=954#comment-4430 Have you read "Anarchy, State, and Utopia" by Robert Nozick or the counter argument to that "A Theory of Justice" by John Rawls. ? I like everything you wrote except for the part about the republicans. I think they are retarded scums. Have you read “Anarchy, State, and Utopia” by Robert Nozick or the counter argument to that “A Theory of Justice” by John Rawls. ?

I like everything you wrote except for the part about the republicans. I think they are retarded scums.

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