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	<title>Comments on: My European Trip, Part 6: Beta Confrontation</title>
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	<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/</link>
	<description>human nature and sexual politics</description>
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		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/#comment-2782</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 21:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=265#comment-2782</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Man, you&#039;ve got real problems if you&#039;re feel threatened by Mo Rocca!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There&#039;s a big difference between &quot;threatened&quot; and &quot;seriously annoyed.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Man, you&#8217;ve got real problems if you&#8217;re feel threatened by Mo Rocca!</p></blockquote>
<p>There&#8217;s a big difference between &#8220;threatened&#8221; and &#8220;seriously annoyed.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Not Published</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/#comment-2781</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Published</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 20:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=265#comment-2781</guid>
		<description>Man, you&#039;ve got real problems if you&#039;re feel threatened by Mo Rocca!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, you&#8217;ve got real problems if you&#8217;re feel threatened by Mo Rocca!</p>
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		<title>By: Mason</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/#comment-2264</link>
		<dc:creator>Mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=265#comment-2264</guid>
		<description>Stephen Colbert (the actor) is a bad example of snarky criticism.  Of the two of them, Jon Stewart is a lot more sarcastic and cutting in his real-life persona.  Colbert is essentially a fun-loving family man who (over)plays a pretentious blowhard on cable.  His writers give him most of the snarky inverted criticisms.

That said, a lot of young people my age seem to favor an attitude of hipster irony that I find tiresome.  The problem is less with the entertainment value of these shows and The Soup on E, than that young&#039;uns think they should imitate them in day-to-day life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen Colbert (the actor) is a bad example of snarky criticism.  Of the two of them, Jon Stewart is a lot more sarcastic and cutting in his real-life persona.  Colbert is essentially a fun-loving family man who (over)plays a pretentious blowhard on cable.  His writers give him most of the snarky inverted criticisms.</p>
<p>That said, a lot of young people my age seem to favor an attitude of hipster irony that I find tiresome.  The problem is less with the entertainment value of these shows and The Soup on E, than that young&#8217;uns think they should imitate them in day-to-day life.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/#comment-2090</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 06:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=265#comment-2090</guid>
		<description>The trick to dealing with these types of Europeans is to beat them at their own game. Maybe, just maybe, they&#039;ve read Chomsky, Zinn, etc but are probably getting their dirt on America from their own intellectuals (which has led a third of Germans to think 911 was in inside job). Check out their former countrymen with beef about how things in Europe go down. Just polish up on your &lt;a href=&quot;http://fourthcheckraise.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ilkka Kokkarinen&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.steynonline.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mark Steyn&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1019739/posts&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jean-Fran?ois Revel&lt;/a&gt;, etc before your next jump across the pond.

Come up with pithy quips of your own that put them on the defensive, instead of standing in as the official spokesperson for America and answering their endless line of questioning, like, &quot;You should be thanking me. Sans anti-Americanism, what would be left standing in your political culture?&quot;

My poor, naive sister did a semester abroad in Glasgow. One night, when she and a group of fellow exchange students from the States walked into one of pubs on campus, a group of Glaswegans started sarcastically chanting &quot;U-S-A! U-S-A!&quot;

She sent me an e-mail the next day, asking what she might have done differently, as the poor thing didn&#039;t want to offend anyone. I told her she should have informed her gracious hosts that it&#039;s only hubris if you&#039;re defeated.

My favorite exchange with an uppity piece of Eurotrash:

&lt;b&gt;Eurotrash&lt;/b&gt;: America kills women and children!
&lt;b&gt;Me&lt;/b&gt;: Not exclusively.

Of particular interest should be Steyn&#039;s work on how PC Europe is handling the issues they&#039;re running into with Muslim immigrants. Peep &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20081014/en_top_eo/63786&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;. You can&#039;t say a bunch of Muslims burned a bunch of cars on the set of Travolta&#039;s new flick, even when it&#039;s the truth. They&#039;re &quot;youth&quot; and &quot;immigrants&quot;, which are both true, but doesn&#039;t get at why there are demilitarized zones in Paris that the French police won&#039;t go into after dark. Also, gay bashings are way up in Amesterdam. The European press is petrified of pointing out the obvious (lest they get offed like a Dutch cartoonist). Couple that with the fact that the Muslim immigrants are the only Europeans reproducing right now...

Just point out, whatever our horrid and numerous cultural shortcomings, 50 years from now that putrid and crass culture will be much better than the one found beneath the minarets they&#039;ll be living under.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The trick to dealing with these types of Europeans is to beat them at their own game. Maybe, just maybe, they&#8217;ve read Chomsky, Zinn, etc but are probably getting their dirt on America from their own intellectuals (which has led a third of Germans to think 911 was in inside job). Check out their former countrymen with beef about how things in Europe go down. Just polish up on your <a href="http://fourthcheckraise.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Ilkka Kokkarinen</a>, <a href="http://www.steynonline.com/" rel="nofollow">Mark Steyn</a>, <a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1019739/posts" rel="nofollow">Jean-Fran?ois Revel</a>, etc before your next jump across the pond.</p>
<p>Come up with pithy quips of your own that put them on the defensive, instead of standing in as the official spokesperson for America and answering their endless line of questioning, like, &#8220;You should be thanking me. Sans anti-Americanism, what would be left standing in your political culture?&#8221;</p>
<p>My poor, naive sister did a semester abroad in Glasgow. One night, when she and a group of fellow exchange students from the States walked into one of pubs on campus, a group of Glaswegans started sarcastically chanting &#8220;U-S-A! U-S-A!&#8221;</p>
<p>She sent me an e-mail the next day, asking what she might have done differently, as the poor thing didn&#8217;t want to offend anyone. I told her she should have informed her gracious hosts that it&#8217;s only hubris if you&#8217;re defeated.</p>
<p>My favorite exchange with an uppity piece of Eurotrash:</p>
<p><b>Eurotrash</b>: America kills women and children!<br />
<b>Me</b>: Not exclusively.</p>
<p>Of particular interest should be Steyn&#8217;s work on how PC Europe is handling the issues they&#8217;re running into with Muslim immigrants. Peep <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20081014/en_top_eo/63786" rel="nofollow">this</a>. You can&#8217;t say a bunch of Muslims burned a bunch of cars on the set of Travolta&#8217;s new flick, even when it&#8217;s the truth. They&#8217;re &#8220;youth&#8221; and &#8220;immigrants&#8221;, which are both true, but doesn&#8217;t get at why there are demilitarized zones in Paris that the French police won&#8217;t go into after dark. Also, gay bashings are way up in Amesterdam. The European press is petrified of pointing out the obvious (lest they get offed like a Dutch cartoonist). Couple that with the fact that the Muslim immigrants are the only Europeans reproducing right now&#8230;</p>
<p>Just point out, whatever our horrid and numerous cultural shortcomings, 50 years from now that putrid and crass culture will be much better than the one found beneath the minarets they&#8217;ll be living under.</p>
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		<title>By: zpr</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/#comment-2087</link>
		<dc:creator>zpr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=265#comment-2087</guid>
		<description>Great post T. You hit the nail on the head when boiling this all down to the continued feminization of western culture. It let?s feminized &quot;men&quot; make themselves feel better because it&#039;s become the acceptable way to show masculinity in their eyes. Funny isn&#039;t it? Being cool used to be being a man now it means who is the bigger bitch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post T. You hit the nail on the head when boiling this all down to the continued feminization of western culture. It let?s feminized &#8220;men&#8221; make themselves feel better because it&#8217;s become the acceptable way to show masculinity in their eyes. Funny isn&#8217;t it? Being cool used to be being a man now it means who is the bigger bitch.</p>
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		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/#comment-2086</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=265#comment-2086</guid>
		<description>MBK - I actually don&#039;t mind sarcasm and snarkiness when, like you said, they are done in moderation and they do not constitute your whole argument.  If you have something substantial and well supported to say and you throw in a little sarcasm and snarkiness for humor, that&#039;s fun.  The problem is now people seem to think it&#039;s the actual point of a conversation rather than a way to express a bigger point.  Rather than being used as a means to an end, it&#039;s actually the end.

I can&#039;t speak as to how Colbert and Rocca act behind closed doors and I&#039;m not denying they&#039;ve worked hard, but their public personas are still part of the problem.  The endless dry sarcasm and snarkiness that counts for deep thought, analysis and commentary among today&#039;s 18-34 so-called intellectual in destination cities.  I guess my bigger problem is their fanbase in particular, especially Colbert&#039;s.  It exasperates me to no end to see young, smart people keep praising him for being such a &quot;genius&quot; (now officially the most overused and currently meaningless word in our language) and so &quot;brilliant&quot; just for using SARCASM.  I mean really, what is sarcasm except just saying the opposite of what you really mean in a condescending smug way.  If that&#039;s now &quot;genius,&quot; what counts as &quot;mildly clever&quot; these days?  If sarcasm now counts as genius, my teenage niece&#039;s friends are the equivalent of the Royal Society of London.  Regardless of how they are behind closed doors or how hard they work, this new brand of celebrity persona, especially Colbert, have done a lot to promote this obnoxious, passive-aggressive beta mindset in this current generation of young men.

Every time I see Colbert give some commentary on an issue, I think about this article and wish he&#039;d realize that sarcasm is not an argument:
http://volokh.com/posts/1165813933.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MBK &#8211; I actually don&#8217;t mind sarcasm and snarkiness when, like you said, they are done in moderation and they do not constitute your whole argument.  If you have something substantial and well supported to say and you throw in a little sarcasm and snarkiness for humor, that&#8217;s fun.  The problem is now people seem to think it&#8217;s the actual point of a conversation rather than a way to express a bigger point.  Rather than being used as a means to an end, it&#8217;s actually the end.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t speak as to how Colbert and Rocca act behind closed doors and I&#8217;m not denying they&#8217;ve worked hard, but their public personas are still part of the problem.  The endless dry sarcasm and snarkiness that counts for deep thought, analysis and commentary among today&#8217;s 18-34 so-called intellectual in destination cities.  I guess my bigger problem is their fanbase in particular, especially Colbert&#8217;s.  It exasperates me to no end to see young, smart people keep praising him for being such a &#8220;genius&#8221; (now officially the most overused and currently meaningless word in our language) and so &#8220;brilliant&#8221; just for using SARCASM.  I mean really, what is sarcasm except just saying the opposite of what you really mean in a condescending smug way.  If that&#8217;s now &#8220;genius,&#8221; what counts as &#8220;mildly clever&#8221; these days?  If sarcasm now counts as genius, my teenage niece&#8217;s friends are the equivalent of the Royal Society of London.  Regardless of how they are behind closed doors or how hard they work, this new brand of celebrity persona, especially Colbert, have done a lot to promote this obnoxious, passive-aggressive beta mindset in this current generation of young men.</p>
<p>Every time I see Colbert give some commentary on an issue, I think about this article and wish he&#8217;d realize that sarcasm is not an argument:<br />
<a href="http://volokh.com/posts/1165813933.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://volokh.com/posts/1165813933.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/#comment-2085</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=265#comment-2085</guid>
		<description>I wish!  :?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish!  <img src='http://therawness.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif' alt=':?' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: MBK</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/#comment-2080</link>
		<dc:creator>MBK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=265#comment-2080</guid>
		<description>Long-time lurker here.  Even though I only agree with about 2/3 of what I read here and I&#039;m further to the left than you politically speaking, I appreciate the intellectual rigor and humility that you demonstrate on this blog.

While I can appreciate sarcasm and snarkiness in moderation, I have serious issues with people (of both sexes!) for whom they constitute a virtual lifestyle.  (Stephen Colbert and Mo Rocca, onscreen persona notwithstanding, worked very hard to get where they are, and they are almost certainly not in this category.)  

As you seem to be implying, there is this unspoken idea among much of my demographic (post-college-educated 20- and early-30-something singles in destination cities) that low-ish tolerance for S&amp;S amounts to naivete, oversensitivity, or lack of education.  In my case, I just find too much of it to be soul-deadening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Long-time lurker here.  Even though I only agree with about 2/3 of what I read here and I&#8217;m further to the left than you politically speaking, I appreciate the intellectual rigor and humility that you demonstrate on this blog.</p>
<p>While I can appreciate sarcasm and snarkiness in moderation, I have serious issues with people (of both sexes!) for whom they constitute a virtual lifestyle.  (Stephen Colbert and Mo Rocca, onscreen persona notwithstanding, worked very hard to get where they are, and they are almost certainly not in this category.)  </p>
<p>As you seem to be implying, there is this unspoken idea among much of my demographic (post-college-educated 20- and early-30-something singles in destination cities) that low-ish tolerance for S&amp;S amounts to naivete, oversensitivity, or lack of education.  In my case, I just find too much of it to be soul-deadening.</p>
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		<title>By: Conqueror</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/#comment-2079</link>
		<dc:creator>Conqueror</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=265#comment-2079</guid>
		<description>Mr. Rawness,
This kind of attack happened to me many times. It always blows me away, because it means someone sees me as an &quot;alpha&quot; male! That&#039;s the last word I&#039;d ever use to describe myself. I can&#039;t see my status in life intimidating anyone. I feel like an aging, under-achieving, Wally Cox type of guy. But apparently, my persona can intimidate other people. 

Lately I&#039;m dealing with a classic passive-aggressive guy at my job. He does nothing but hold up progress and stir up trouble, but I&#039;m not in a position to hurt him directly. I&#039;m practicing this strategy: I stroke his ego whenever I run into him, and defer to him in meetings so he has room to hang himself. Then, I leave him out of the loop on the actual work. I never consult him on anything, and if I get an assignment that can&#039;t be accomplished without consulting him, I just don&#039;t do it. This is working well so far; he&#039;s making lots of trouble for others, and I hope he blows himself up soon by going too far.

Keep up the great writing! Post often and write them as long as you want!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Rawness,<br />
This kind of attack happened to me many times. It always blows me away, because it means someone sees me as an &#8220;alpha&#8221; male! That&#8217;s the last word I&#8217;d ever use to describe myself. I can&#8217;t see my status in life intimidating anyone. I feel like an aging, under-achieving, Wally Cox type of guy. But apparently, my persona can intimidate other people. </p>
<p>Lately I&#8217;m dealing with a classic passive-aggressive guy at my job. He does nothing but hold up progress and stir up trouble, but I&#8217;m not in a position to hurt him directly. I&#8217;m practicing this strategy: I stroke his ego whenever I run into him, and defer to him in meetings so he has room to hang himself. Then, I leave him out of the loop on the actual work. I never consult him on anything, and if I get an assignment that can&#8217;t be accomplished without consulting him, I just don&#8217;t do it. This is working well so far; he&#8217;s making lots of trouble for others, and I hope he blows himself up soon by going too far.</p>
<p>Keep up the great writing! Post often and write them as long as you want!</p>
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		<title>By: DF</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/my-european-trip-part-6-beta-confrontation/#comment-2070</link>
		<dc:creator>DF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 21:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=265#comment-2070</guid>
		<description>Your post is so timely.  I just had a falling out with this Indian kid I was hanging with over the summer.  Initially, he seemed cool regularly inviting a small group of us to drink whiskey on his terrace overlooking the city.  He was a big time beta, crushing on this Asian chick that was part of our little newly formed clique.  When it was just the two of us having a drink he would go on and on about this girl.  Of course the Asian girl was in a relationship with another guy that she wasn?t too happy with.  We became friends and she would ask me for advice on a number of things as well as what to do about her relationship.  I guess the Indian kid caught wind of this and when the group got together and the Asian chick was there that&#039;s when the sarcasm and the snarky comments began. As is typically my style, I just didn&#039;t respond to it but things got worse.  I?m looking forward to hearing about the rearden to see if I could have handled that situation better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your post is so timely.  I just had a falling out with this Indian kid I was hanging with over the summer.  Initially, he seemed cool regularly inviting a small group of us to drink whiskey on his terrace overlooking the city.  He was a big time beta, crushing on this Asian chick that was part of our little newly formed clique.  When it was just the two of us having a drink he would go on and on about this girl.  Of course the Asian girl was in a relationship with another guy that she wasn?t too happy with.  We became friends and she would ask me for advice on a number of things as well as what to do about her relationship.  I guess the Indian kid caught wind of this and when the group got together and the Asian chick was there that&#8217;s when the sarcasm and the snarky comments began. As is typically my style, I just didn&#8217;t respond to it but things got worse.  I?m looking forward to hearing about the rearden to see if I could have handled that situation better.</p>
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