<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Middle Class Alpha Interlude</title>
	<atom:link href="http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/</link>
	<description>human nature and sexual politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:12:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4400</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4400</guid>
		<description>I think that&#039;s a totally fair, alternative way of expressing it Kenny.  Like in the old ways, if the size of the pie increased, the big men just gobbled up more slices.  In modern society, as you said, when the whole pie is increased, things are set up so that everyone&#039;s slice of pie gets bigger.

I can buy that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s a totally fair, alternative way of expressing it Kenny.  Like in the old ways, if the size of the pie increased, the big men just gobbled up more slices.  In modern society, as you said, when the whole pie is increased, things are set up so that everyone&#8217;s slice of pie gets bigger.</p>
<p>I can buy that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: KennyCelican</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4399</link>
		<dc:creator>KennyCelican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4399</guid>
		<description>Great series, T!  Looking forward to the rest of it.

A point to ponder regarding this:

&lt;blockquote&gt;We give up the chance to become the biggest alphas we were capable of being in past societies in exchange for a safety net that keeps us from becoming the sexless, womanless, utterly powerless betas we were also capable of becoming in those past societies. Modern society is the collective decision to give up the potential heights of accomplishment in exchange for guaranteeing none of us will ever have to experience the ultimate in shitty existence either.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Would it be equally valid to say that we buy into this due to the &#039;bigger pie&#039; idea?  By that I mean that while no one gets the whole pie, the pie as a whole is increased enough that every single piece is larger than the entire pie was before we bought into modern society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great series, T!  Looking forward to the rest of it.</p>
<p>A point to ponder regarding this:</p>
<blockquote><p>We give up the chance to become the biggest alphas we were capable of being in past societies in exchange for a safety net that keeps us from becoming the sexless, womanless, utterly powerless betas we were also capable of becoming in those past societies. Modern society is the collective decision to give up the potential heights of accomplishment in exchange for guaranteeing none of us will ever have to experience the ultimate in shitty existence either.</p></blockquote>
<p>Would it be equally valid to say that we buy into this due to the &#8216;bigger pie&#8217; idea?  By that I mean that while no one gets the whole pie, the pie as a whole is increased enough that every single piece is larger than the entire pie was before we bought into modern society.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4396</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 04:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4396</guid>
		<description>Also, in reference to Anonymous&#039;s point below:

&lt;blockquote&gt;1) He is making what is really, a very simple point, in a very long, drawn out way. ‘Society has tamed us, we are no longer ‘true alpha males’ in the caveman sense.’&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s not the point.  The point is that modern society as we know it is a tradeoff.  We give up the chance to become the biggest alphas we were capable of being in past societies in exchange for a safety net that keeps us from becoming the sexless, womanless, utterly powerless betas we were also capable of becoming in those past societies.  Modern society is the collective decision to give up the potential heights of accomplishment in exchange for guaranteeing none of us will ever have to experience the ultimate in shitty existence either.

Therefore the men&#039;s groups who complain over and over about how modern society has tamed alphadom and feminism ruined things for men are being shortsighted because they&#039;re losing sight of the ways modern society, despite being emasculating on the surface, actually has improved the living conditions of men on average across the board.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, in reference to Anonymous&#8217;s point below:</p>
<blockquote><p>1) He is making what is really, a very simple point, in a very long, drawn out way. ‘Society has tamed us, we are no longer ‘true alpha males’ in the caveman sense.’</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s not the point.  The point is that modern society as we know it is a tradeoff.  We give up the chance to become the biggest alphas we were capable of being in past societies in exchange for a safety net that keeps us from becoming the sexless, womanless, utterly powerless betas we were also capable of becoming in those past societies.  Modern society is the collective decision to give up the potential heights of accomplishment in exchange for guaranteeing none of us will ever have to experience the ultimate in shitty existence either.</p>
<p>Therefore the men&#8217;s groups who complain over and over about how modern society has tamed alphadom and feminism ruined things for men are being shortsighted because they&#8217;re losing sight of the ways modern society, despite being emasculating on the surface, actually has improved the living conditions of men on average across the board.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4394</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 18:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4394</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;To get back to nature, so to speak, how about this: Alphas are men who, despite having to occasionally display submissiveness to get along in modern society, chafe under it. They detest it and seek a way to mitigate or reduce it. But a Beta has no trouble with submissiveness and would probably be horrified to be in charge of other men&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is definitely a step in the right direction, but I don&#039;t think true alphas are very good at displaying submissiveness.  They&#039;re almost self-destructive and shortsighted in their inability to humble themselves.  That&#039;s why I think in modern times so many of them end up on the jail track early on in life, or society can only tolerate their strong-willed ways because they are part of the social elite and can get away with it better.

The person who is for the most part alpha but can navigate modern society expertly and strategically by displaying betaness when called for is what I refer to as a Renaissance or Evolved man.  This is what I&#039;m going into more with Part 4, which I think may count as that practical advice some people say is missing from this series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>To get back to nature, so to speak, how about this: Alphas are men who, despite having to occasionally display submissiveness to get along in modern society, chafe under it. They detest it and seek a way to mitigate or reduce it. But a Beta has no trouble with submissiveness and would probably be horrified to be in charge of other men</p></blockquote>
<p>This is definitely a step in the right direction, but I don&#8217;t think true alphas are very good at displaying submissiveness.  They&#8217;re almost self-destructive and shortsighted in their inability to humble themselves.  That&#8217;s why I think in modern times so many of them end up on the jail track early on in life, or society can only tolerate their strong-willed ways because they are part of the social elite and can get away with it better.</p>
<p>The person who is for the most part alpha but can navigate modern society expertly and strategically by displaying betaness when called for is what I refer to as a Renaissance or Evolved man.  This is what I&#8217;m going into more with Part 4, which I think may count as that practical advice some people say is missing from this series.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joey Giraud</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4393</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey Giraud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 18:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4393</guid>
		<description>T, you&#039;re reframing A/B according to strategy, rather then base nature. That&#039;s helpful; one can act Alpha or Beta, as need dictates. 

I see you like having words mean things. That&#039;s why you&#039;ll never be rich! :)

To get back to nature, so to speak, how about this: Alphas are men who, despite having to occasionally display submissiveness to get along in modern society, chafe under it. They detest it and seek a way to mitigate or reduce it. But a Beta has no trouble with submissiveness and would probably be horrified to be in charge of other men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T, you&#8217;re reframing A/B according to strategy, rather then base nature. That&#8217;s helpful; one can act Alpha or Beta, as need dictates. </p>
<p>I see you like having words mean things. That&#8217;s why you&#8217;ll never be rich! <img src='http://therawness.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>To get back to nature, so to speak, how about this: Alphas are men who, despite having to occasionally display submissiveness to get along in modern society, chafe under it. They detest it and seek a way to mitigate or reduce it. But a Beta has no trouble with submissiveness and would probably be horrified to be in charge of other men.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4392</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4392</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Seduction artists picked it up since it ties into displays of superior value. Eventually the whole Greek alphabet has become shorthand for a whole lot of stuff having nothing to do with male hierarchies, and now it’s little more then compliments and insults. Real progress.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I totally agree with this.  It&#039;s a big problem I see, which is why I wanted to do this series.  This belief that anything positive must be categorized as &quot;alpha&quot; and anything negative must be &quot;beta&quot; has led to a lot of inconsistent and downright contradictory commentary that I thought needed addressing.  Sometimes the alpha response to a situation is the downright wrong or stupid option, sometimes the beta response is the better, smarter option.  We live in a society that requires us to be a judicious blend of the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Seduction artists picked it up since it ties into displays of superior value. Eventually the whole Greek alphabet has become shorthand for a whole lot of stuff having nothing to do with male hierarchies, and now it’s little more then compliments and insults. Real progress.</p></blockquote>
<p>I totally agree with this.  It&#8217;s a big problem I see, which is why I wanted to do this series.  This belief that anything positive must be categorized as &#8220;alpha&#8221; and anything negative must be &#8220;beta&#8221; has led to a lot of inconsistent and downright contradictory commentary that I thought needed addressing.  Sometimes the alpha response to a situation is the downright wrong or stupid option, sometimes the beta response is the better, smarter option.  We live in a society that requires us to be a judicious blend of the two.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joey Giraud</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4391</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey Giraud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4391</guid>
		<description>Not that T is doing this, but stretching a metaphor too far breaks it. A classical Alpha Male was the leader of the pack; an idea that makes no sense without a pack or a hierarchy. The characteristics of dominance aren&#039;t limited to the Alpha, but the Alpha had the most. And virtually all men are submissive; to more dominant men. That doesn&#039;t make them women.

The Seduction artists picked it up since it ties into displays of superior value. Eventually the whole Greek alphabet has become shorthand for a whole lot of stuff having nothing to do with male hierarchies, and now it&#039;s little more then compliments and insults. Real progress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that T is doing this, but stretching a metaphor too far breaks it. A classical Alpha Male was the leader of the pack; an idea that makes no sense without a pack or a hierarchy. The characteristics of dominance aren&#8217;t limited to the Alpha, but the Alpha had the most. And virtually all men are submissive; to more dominant men. That doesn&#8217;t make them women.</p>
<p>The Seduction artists picked it up since it ties into displays of superior value. Eventually the whole Greek alphabet has become shorthand for a whole lot of stuff having nothing to do with male hierarchies, and now it&#8217;s little more then compliments and insults. Real progress.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4390</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4390</guid>
		<description>Conqueror, thanks for the feedback.  I have no problem with Anonymous saying he specifically can&#039;t get anything out of it.  To each his own.  I was more annoyed by him using the word &quot;us.&quot;  He shouldn&#039;t presume to speak for everyone.

Anyway, I don&#039;t want to specifically spell out what can be derived from these observations right away, one of the things with this blog I want to train people to do is learn how to think, not just follow whatever I tell them, so I don&#039;t always lead off with the practical advice.  But I will move more in the direction of practical advice as the series starts to wrap up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conqueror, thanks for the feedback.  I have no problem with Anonymous saying he specifically can&#8217;t get anything out of it.  To each his own.  I was more annoyed by him using the word &#8220;us.&#8221;  He shouldn&#8217;t presume to speak for everyone.</p>
<p>Anyway, I don&#8217;t want to specifically spell out what can be derived from these observations right away, one of the things with this blog I want to train people to do is learn how to think, not just follow whatever I tell them, so I don&#8217;t always lead off with the practical advice.  But I will move more in the direction of practical advice as the series starts to wrap up.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Conqueror</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4389</link>
		<dc:creator>Conqueror</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 15:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4389</guid>
		<description>Mr. T,
Wonderful observations. I always enjoy your writing. I agree that many people don&#039;t understand your approach. We are flooded with opinions and ads, all of which tell us how things should be. Almost no one slows down to dispassionately investigate how things actually are--or &quot;were,&quot; historically. But keeping that open mind is the only way we can learn about the world. For more of this fresh air, read Machiavelli and Robert Greene.

I&#039;m tempted to point out that being an actual archaic alpha male [in the extremely unlikely event that you had the chance] was no picnic. However, that&#039;s irrelevant, because it&#039;s not the world we live in. You rightly point out that our options are safer and generally more pleasant. 

I&#039;m not going to jump to the conclusion that we can&#039;t use these observations to live more effectively [as Anonymous did], but I do want to encourage you to focus on that specifically. I&#039;m sure you&#039;ll have something valuable to say on the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. T,<br />
Wonderful observations. I always enjoy your writing. I agree that many people don&#8217;t understand your approach. We are flooded with opinions and ads, all of which tell us how things should be. Almost no one slows down to dispassionately investigate how things actually are&#8211;or &#8220;were,&#8221; historically. But keeping that open mind is the only way we can learn about the world. For more of this fresh air, read Machiavelli and Robert Greene.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m tempted to point out that being an actual archaic alpha male [in the extremely unlikely event that you had the chance] was no picnic. However, that&#8217;s irrelevant, because it&#8217;s not the world we live in. You rightly point out that our options are safer and generally more pleasant. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to jump to the conclusion that we can&#8217;t use these observations to live more effectively [as Anonymous did], but I do want to encourage you to focus on that specifically. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll have something valuable to say on the subject.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: T. AKA Ricky Raw</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4388</link>
		<dc:creator>T. AKA Ricky Raw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 13:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4388</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;1) He is making what is really, a very simple point, in a very long, drawn out way. ‘Society has tamed us, we are no longer ‘true alpha males’ in the caveman sense.’&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There are several reasons why the pieces are long.  I like to put a lot of supporting scientific evidence, quotes from experts and historical examples when making a case. Because when I don&#039;t do it in the post, a bunch of commenters will say in the comments &quot;where&#039;s the science?&quot; and &quot;what you say goes against what any self-respecting experts say&quot; and &quot;what you say doesn&#039;t match up to history.&quot;  Therefore I try to address and disarm any predictable counterarguments in advance before they&#039;re actually made.  And I like to be repetitive because you&#039;d be surprised how often people misinterpret what you mean if you&#039;re not.  Hell, even if you do repeat your point over and over again.

&lt;blockquote&gt;2) Much more importantly, it doesn’t seem as though this is knowledge any of us can use in our daily lives to benefit from.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If you believe this and this is the extent of your imagination, then you&#039;re right, YOU can&#039;t use this knowledge in your daily life or benefit from it. I&#039;m not going to try to convince you otherwise.  But speak only for yourself and don&#039;t use &quot;us.&quot;  Give the rest of the readers some credit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>1) He is making what is really, a very simple point, in a very long, drawn out way. ‘Society has tamed us, we are no longer ‘true alpha males’ in the caveman sense.’</p></blockquote>
<p>There are several reasons why the pieces are long.  I like to put a lot of supporting scientific evidence, quotes from experts and historical examples when making a case. Because when I don&#8217;t do it in the post, a bunch of commenters will say in the comments &#8220;where&#8217;s the science?&#8221; and &#8220;what you say goes against what any self-respecting experts say&#8221; and &#8220;what you say doesn&#8217;t match up to history.&#8221;  Therefore I try to address and disarm any predictable counterarguments in advance before they&#8217;re actually made.  And I like to be repetitive because you&#8217;d be surprised how often people misinterpret what you mean if you&#8217;re not.  Hell, even if you do repeat your point over and over again.</p>
<blockquote><p>2) Much more importantly, it doesn’t seem as though this is knowledge any of us can use in our daily lives to benefit from.</p></blockquote>
<p>If you believe this and this is the extent of your imagination, then you&#8217;re right, YOU can&#8217;t use this knowledge in your daily life or benefit from it. I&#8217;m not going to try to convince you otherwise.  But speak only for yourself and don&#8217;t use &#8220;us.&#8221;  Give the rest of the readers some credit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4387</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 13:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4387</guid>
		<description>T is putting our current definition of Alpha male in context.  His posts are thorough (wordy, if you&#039;re being cynical), but in order to make his point, he&#039;s making the distinction between Alphas in a less pussified society to our present day &quot;Alpha male.&quot;

I have a hard time with criticizing the work as a whole before all the posts are up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T is putting our current definition of Alpha male in context.  His posts are thorough (wordy, if you&#8217;re being cynical), but in order to make his point, he&#8217;s making the distinction between Alphas in a less pussified society to our present day &#8220;Alpha male.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have a hard time with criticizing the work as a whole before all the posts are up.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://therawness.com/middle-class-alpha-interlude/#comment-4385</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 07:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therawness.com/?p=968#comment-4385</guid>
		<description>While I find these articles insightful, there are two problems, I think:

1) He is making what is really, a very simple point, in a very long, drawn out way. &#039;Society has tamed us, we are no longer &#039;true alpha males&#039; in the caveman sense.&#039;

2) Much more importantly, it doesn&#039;t seem as though this is knowledge any of us can use in our daily lives to benefit from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I find these articles insightful, there are two problems, I think:</p>
<p>1) He is making what is really, a very simple point, in a very long, drawn out way. &#8216;Society has tamed us, we are no longer &#8216;true alpha males&#8217; in the caveman sense.&#8217;</p>
<p>2) Much more importantly, it doesn&#8217;t seem as though this is knowledge any of us can use in our daily lives to benefit from.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
