Cred (Updated)
Commenter Entropy left this comment:
Will anyone of you light a cigarette for a woman without being asked? I think it lowers your value–insofar volunteering to do anything for a pretty woman without being prompted–will lower your value. I will recommend a robust cigarette-centered NEG to go along with your assistance to help her light her cigarette. Baring that, dont help her at all.
This is a very good question. Watch this space, I’ll answer this question later today. In the meantime if you so desire, feel free to leave your responses to this question in the comments if you have any suggestions.
UPDATE:
So here are my thoughts on the matter. Rather than just give a yes or no answer, I’d rather take you through a thought exercise to train you in how to think about the game overall.
I think a lot of guys who are looking into interaction advice get caught up in finding hard and fast absolute rules to use in every situation. A rulebook and set of scripts that can be used across the board in every situation for success. Yes you should always neg. No you should never neg. Always buy a drink. No, never buy a drink. Always wait two days at least before calling. No, wait seven days. No, you should call immediately.
Let’s backtrack a second. The key here is not just to memorize rules or steps to universally use in every situation. The key is to understand what the larger purpose of all the specific advice is, what the ultimate goal is that the advice it trying to steer you toward. Once you understand that, you can alter the rulebook at will depending on the situation, and you can begin to understand why two people can do totally opposite styles yet still get good results.
When it comes to social interactions (all social interactions, not just dating), the ultimate goal of any rule is to convey lots of value as quickly as possible. Value means having something to offer rather than just being a “taker.” Picture when a moderately to shabbily dressed stranger comes up to you in the street in the big city and starts a conversation in a near-apologetic tone. He says “Excuse me, can I have a minute of your time? I just noticed you walking here in your sharp suit and…” Think of the times in the past this has happened to you. What is the first thing you think? “Is this a bum?” “Oh geez, spare me the story and just ask me for the money so I can just say yes or no and move on.” “Are you a salesperson? What are you trying to sell me today?” And so on and so on. Bums, cold callers, pushy salespeople, network marketing recruiters, we immediately see them as “value takers,” so the moment they approach us we resent them and start rehearsing rejections in our head. We feel they are solely there to take value from us for their own benefit without giving enough value back in exchange.
Now picture if someone comes out of a chauffered stretch limo in an impeccable three piece custom suit and said the exact same words “Excuse me, can I have a minute of your time? I just noticed you walking here in your sharp suit and…” How do you feel this time? It’s the exact same words but this time I’m sure it has a different effect. The difference is that the person now has the appearance of being a potential “value giver.” He may be a mogul or someone who can give you a job. He may be someone important about to tell you something to enrich your life. He may be someone who is connected that can help you along at some point in your life. He may be a celebrity. Maybe he’s a salesperson who is actually offering something very useful or a deal too good to pass up. Whatever he is, you are interested enough to know more and to find out for sure if he has any value to pass along to you. Or let’s even use a bum again for an example. Say instead of being the bum with a long sob story, say he sang you an incredible song and did an amazing comedy routine that livened up your day for a few minutes. And then he asked from money. Because he gave you some value first, you don’t mind giving him some in return. The sob story beggar street guy is a value taker. The performing street guy is a value giver. Both ask for money but the value context is totally different, hence the different results.
Another example, think of a shabby-looking nightclub blasting lame music and letting any low class person in. There’s a guy outside trying to cajole any and all people passing by to enter. Telling you drink specials, promising girls and a good time, following you down the street harassing you to come in. There are a handful of desperate looking badly dressed scrubs on a quick-moving line thirstily ogling every girl who passes. Compare that with the place with a glamorous exterior, a red velvet rope, an insanely difficult door policy, celebs rolling up, a line down the block filled with beautiful classy women and high status and a bouncer who pays you no mind as you pass by or even as you engage him. Which one is more likely to be considered as a “value taking” spot and which one is likely to be considered a “value giving” spot? Which one will enhance your reputation more when you tell other people the next day that you got into it? Which one will likely lower your reputation if you brag you got into it?
So it goes with rules like “negs,” drink buying, cigarette lighting, etc. [This is the most important part of the piece so pay attention:] It’s not the action that matters so much as the context of the action. Is the action taking place in a “value giving” context or a “value taking” context?
In two different contexts, the exact same action can convey two totally different meanings. For example, let’s go back to the example of the two nightclubs. Picture if at the first lame nightclub I described, the desperate door guy promoter stops you and your friends and says “Wow, you guys sure are a sharp group. Come inside, we’ll set you up in VIP.” You’d look at the line of losers, the shabby looking exterior of the club and the eagerness of the promoter and his compliment will come off as a sign of weakness making him look lamer. Now picture you and your friends are passing by the second club and as legions of the beautiful people are clamoring outside to get in, the door person suddenly drops what he’s doing to approach you and say “Wow, you guys sure are a sharp group. Come inside, we’ll set you up in VIP.” Exact same action, a compliment. Exact same words and sentiment. But it has a whole different effect this time because it’s coming from a perceived “value giver” than a “value taker.”
Let’s alter the examples again slightly. Let’s go back to the first shabby club again. Say you pause outside just to survey it and see if you want to go in. It’s as I described before and initially seems unimpressive, and the guy comes up to you. You expect him to beg you to come in but instead he throws you a curveball and says “Nice as you guys look tonight, it’s doubtful you’re getting in. Even if you’re on the guestlist. It’s just been that kind of night. But if you hang around who knows?” This statement might be enough to get you intrigued, even if its for only a split second, in a nightclub you would have never remotely been interested in going to before hearing that statement. Suddenly you wonder if you misjudged the club. Suddenly you are curious about what’s beneath that exterior. You’re intrigued. The club is not eager to take value from you after all. In fact, it may have value to give. This is the same concept behind the neg. But in the case of the second club, the value it has to give is obvious from the start. And the fact that it is not eager to take your value because it has so many options is also obvious. So a similar statement from the door guy at that club is unnecessary to intrigue you. In fact, it may be overkill. The same goes for “negging.” To be a value-giver, you have to be able to pass a two-prong test: (1) how much value you potentially have to offer and (2) how desperately you need value from others,. The better you are at conveying yourself as a value giver, the less value-conveying shortcuts, tricks and rules you need. For illustration of this two-prong test, look at how banks decide who to give loans to. They don’t go by the person who has the least value to offer and blatantly conveys their desperate needs to take value from the bank, even though such a person would probably appreciate the loan the most. No, they choose who to give value to based on who (1) has a lot of value to offer in return (in the form of assets, a steady paycheck, dependable payment history on credit report and savings) and who (2) doesn’t have as desperate a need for the value (also something a credit report tells them). The person who seems to already have the most money and needs the money the least is the person the bank seems most eager to lend to.
One more example. Think of movie character archetypes. Say you have a do-gooder people pleaser character. Total nice guy wuss. Say you have the alpha male ladies man. For example, the characters Alan (Jon Cryer) and Charlie (Charlie Sheen) from Two and a Half Men. If Alan were to give flowers to a woman, shed a tear in front of her or declare his undying love for her, it just goes as more evidence of his loser persona. If Charlie were to do the exact same things, he would get credit for showing some vulnerability and it would be seen as endearing. Same act committed by both, but thanks to different value-giving and value-taking contexts conveyed, it leaves different impressions depending on who does it.
When a guy is not very good with women or is a beginner at getting good with women, hard fast rules of thumb and regimrented steps are more necessary, because he’s not used to quickly conveying what value he has value to give or that he’s not desperately in need of value to take. Chances are he’s spent most of his dating life as the equivalent of the beggar or pushy salesman in my first example, or the person who goes into the bank trying to get a loan by talking about how strapped for cash he is an how much he needs the loan. He’s used to always coming in broadcasting his low value and his desire to take value from others. He has no natural instincts at conveying high potential for giving value or low need for taking value. Not with his words, not with his body language, not with his physical appearance, not with his fashion choices. Like the beggar he’s only trained himself to broadcast how little he has and how much value he wants/needs to take. What the woman feels from the typical guy is similar to what most people feel when getting approached on the street with a pitch from blatant value takers like beggars, junk salesmen and telemarketers. The approached person thinks I know you want something, I’m sure you’re offering nothing or something I have no interest in, the sooner I can get you away from me the better.
So back to Entropy’s question. Is it weakness to light a woman’s cigarette unsolicited? Is it necessary to neg her when doing it? The answer is…it depends on how skilled you are at quickly setting a high-value-offering, low value-needing context. Or as I like to call it, your CRED (as in street cred). The higher the value you convey yourself as having to offer and the lower the you convey yourself as desperately needing value, the higher your cred. Some people scream high cred without uttering a word, just by eye contact and/or body language. Or by their entourage. Or their swagger. If you can reach this level, your mere aura does the job of a neg for you. This should be your ultimate goal. The negs, the rules, the scripts, the stories, those are all stepping stones to this final goal, not the goal itself. Once again, cred is how much value you potentially have to offer to others combined with how little you seem to need value from others in return.
If you rush over from across the room with eager body language, your arm outstretched and zero swagger to light the cigarette, you have no cred. Even a playful insult won’t help negate the weakness and desperation you’ve shown. On the other hand if you have the looks, swagger and aura that can demand attention and electrify a room the moment you walk into it, you can walk across a room confidently holding deliberate, smoldering eye contact for no other reason than to light her cigarette and still come off as high cred. No neg needed. The neg would be overkill. Most people fall in between both extremes. Be honest and evaluate where you fall in the spectrum of ability to instantly convey strong cred and that will tell you how much vulnerability, exerted effort or unsolicited niceness it’s safe for you to show up front. If you’re a rookie at conveying strong cred quickly, you need to show as little vulnerability, exerted effort and unsolicited niceness up front as possible and keep it that way until you feel you’ve reached a point in the action where you’ve conveyed strong cred. With time and practice, as you get dirty in the game and get better instincts and skills, you’ll know how to generate instant and insanely strong cred and you’ll get away with showing levels of vulnerability, exerted effort and unsolicited niceness that would kill most other guys if they did it (of course no matter how good you are, there are limits to this). Thanks to my ability to generate high cred, I’ve done stuff successfully that I routinely hear people say you should never do. I’ve called women an hour after getting their numbers. I’ve opened women with over the top compliments. I’ve lit women’s cigarettes unsolicited.
And of course when evaluating whether to use tricks such as playful insults and teasing or waiting a few days to call a number, it’s not just your cred alone in a vacuum you have to evaluate, it’s your cred in relation to the girl’s self-perceived cred. If you convey so much cred in relation to their girl that she feels way outclassed, she’ll doubt your interest is genuine because she’ll start thinking your out of your league. This is a way that the confidence and swagger of high cred can backfire. With this dynamic, insulting her even playfully or waiting too long to call her will confirm to her you’re out of her league and not serious about her, maybe just toying with her out of boredom, and end up messing you up. And remember, it’s her self-perceived cred that’s the issue, not what you perceive it to be. If a girl is a 9 to you and the rest of the world but has low self-esteem and sees herself as a 6, and sees you as having high cred, you can’t neg her because she’ll actually take you seriously. You can’t wait too long not to call her in a gambit to establish lack of neediness because she’ll take it as a high-status guy toying with her and not really being interested. On the flip side, if you are dealing with a 6 who’s self-perceived value is a 9…well, what would you do that for? You know better than that. Kick her to the curb!
So I know it’s not an easy yes or no answer as far as whether to light the chick’s cigarette or not. I know “it depends” often sounds like a cop-out answer, but it really does depend. It depends on both your conveyed cred and her self-perceived cred and how big the gap is between the two.
(7 votes, average: 5.00 out of 5)
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Yeah, I’ll help her light up.. I’ll even buy a woman a drink. But it will be on my terms. “Come here, we are having drinks.” I buy her a drink and I pay for it.
Actually, lighting her ciggeratte without her askng/prompting is an alpha move. Learn some zippo tricks and do it with a flair for bonus points.
You mean people still smoke? And y’all actually chat them up?
Disgusting.
I dont deny that there is something gentlemanly and alpha about lighting a woman’s cigarette with elan. Done smoothly, of course. But there is also the underlying fact that whenever you render assistance to exceptionally beautiful woman without them even asking you…you lower your value. As such, i suggest a compromise…do it(light the cigarette) with a side order of a NEG.
This also applies to opening the door for a beautiful woman….sorry, i just cant let her go without a NEG slap.
That is my take.
Entropy, may I suggest the following NEG while you are lighting her ciggie;
“smoking is incredibly smelly and gross. I’m surprised someone as classy as you would do it”
light up.
Yes. And the proper way to do it is, if indoors or outdoors with a well-dressed woman, to take out your lighter, hold the device up in her range of vision to get her attention and then gain either silent or verbal acknowledgment and gratitude, and THEN light the lighter or strike the match. The proper woman will touch your hand as you are holding the flame, then thank you again, expressly, when she has lit her cigarette.
Outdoors with a regular down-to-earth girl you just say, hey, you need a light and then hand her the device –lighter, matches, your cigarette, whatever.
It’s like handkerchiefs. Dudes just carry them around because we are boyscouts, always prepared. But you don’t go walking around the party handing them out or shoving them in people’s faces. There’s got to be a demonstrated need and lack. Then you’re there because, let’s face it, you’ve got all your shit in one bag, organized, tight; you can afford to dole out a little extra niceness here and there no sweat.
“You know, real women smoke cigars.”
Definitely light it. Very manly, confident and in-control.
Karol´s last blog ..They may take our lives
I’m sorry but offering a “neg” in order to make yourself not look like the gentleman you come off as by offering to light her cigarette, is what lowers your value. Not the act. Intentionally, putting someone down to faux increase your standing is whack as hell. If you gotta do all that, keep your lighter in your pocket and keep it moving.
The Lioness´s last blog ..Why Women Don’t Give Head
The Lioness,
Your argument is morality-based. This is not about morality–this is about power. Game is beyond good and evil, or, to put it another way: All is fair in love and war.
In life, there is always that tug of war: between the moral and the necessary “evil”. Neg is a necessary “evil”.
That will be all for now.
@ Entropy,
That was a bunch of bullshit. I hope you washed your hands after typing that.
That will be all for now.
The Lioness´s last blog ..Why Women Don’t Give Head
I’m not sure negging will work quite as well if you say it directly about the habit, because if you do have a lighter, you must light up yourself as well. Thus you lower your value too if taken seriously and only succeed in satirising anti-smokers if taken lightly.
The Lioness,
Another thing is this: Is she is a fat/ugly woman, i wont bother at all to help her light her cigarette. Screw her. She can go light her cigarette with her own fart. What is the point of lighting a cigarette for an ugly chick?
If she is stunning(as our hypothetical woman is expected to be), as such, volunteering to light her cigarette is a pretext on my part to start engaging her in a conversation with the objective of banging her later. That is it. That is my naked desire. I am not doing it(lighting her cigarette) because i am nice or good or holy. I am lighting her cigarette because i want to throw a solid fuck into her.
(yes, there are countless ways to open a smoking woman without lighting their cigarette, we all know that!)
Now, her being an exceptionally beautiful woman, she is already used to many, many men helping her light her cigarette and, those man, subsequently trying to pick her up. She has seen this pattern countless times. A million fucking times. Ask any gorgeous woman. The question now becomes, how do you use this same pretext without falling into the same sinkhole of dismissal/polite contempt that all other men before you had gone? You use the NEG( plus an alpha pose, and ultra-smooth elan, when lighting that cigarette.)
Besides, if she is a stunningly beautiful woman, chances are, she had on countless occasions used her beauty to get what she wants(either directly or surreptitiously). The universe is amoral. The whole idea of putting babes(particularly stunning babes) on a default moral pedestal is an anathema to me. As somebody soo eloquently put it: NEG, and ask question later…..
Entropy, Over and out.
Clearly, someone has spent entirely too much time taking notes from Mystery during The Pickup Artist.
Assuming your goal is to “land a solid fuck”, this is how I see this all playing out:
1. If you are unattrative, leading with a neg instead of a sincere or complimenting remark, will get you cursed out, slapped, or ignored.
2. If you are decent, assuming you have the ability to have interesting conversation (I mean you need to be witty, charismatic, and engaging) then you might get the number that night.
3. If you are attractive, then unless you are a complete idiot or an ass, you would be able to pull her anyway. No negs needed.
I have seen better results from guys who want to just have sex, with their being completely honest about what they are looking for.Negs are just games that men hide behind who are either unattractive or just plain old jack asses.
The Lioness´s last blog ..Why Women Don’t Give Head
hey, Lioness,
Whatever works for you. Obviously, we can only speak from the view point of our experiences. Given that you stated above “..this is how i see this all playing out…” Maybe you’ve been slapped, cursed out, or royally dissed/ignored(as you referenced above), sorry man….I, on the other hand, have a completely different experience when it comes to picking up exceptionally beautiful women.
Obviously, i cannot force you to accept my personal experience when it comes to picking up beautiful woman any more than you can convince me of yours. If you’ve been slapped, cursed out, and royally humiliated. Dissed/ignored, well, sorry about that, man…that is all i can say to you. Your humiliating experiences does not, and cannot, negate my success with really pretty women and my use of negs/qualifiers. We can only see the world from the view point of our experiences. Nothing will change that. Obviously we both have two completely, polar experiences.
As such, the way “you see it working out” is clearly not the way “i HAVE SEEN it worked out”. I can only speak from what i have tried in the field–my experiences. Like i said, each to his/her own experiences. And there is just no fucking way you can convince me to ignore my firsthand experience when it comes to picking up beautiful women just because you’ve been slapped, cursed, and royally humiliated. Sorry, dude, your baggage is not my problem. Each to his/her own.
That will be all.
Entropy, over and out.
OMG- I am a female which is why I know how it all plays out because I and many of my friends have been approached with that bullshit. Use context clues- The Lioness (“ess” as in female).
The Lioness´s last blog ..Why Women Don’t Give Head
NOTE: The post has now been updated with my answer. Any comment before this one was before I updated with my answer. That is all. Carry on.
T,
“On the other hand if you have the looks, swagger and aura that can demand attention and electrify a room the moment you walk into it, you can walk across a room confidently holding deliberate, smoldering eye contact for no other reason than to light her cigarette and still come off as high cred. No neg needed.”
You just broke down The G Manifesto more eloquently than I have ever been able to.
- MPM
The G Manifesto´s last blog ..Vernon Forrest killed in Robbery in Atlanta
To the T. and the G.,
I am not contesting any of the points stated in particular, the fact remains that you may have all the swagger, alpha demeanor, Adonis good looks in the world, and a hot female may still thinks she is supremely better than you. That is why i am a proponent of “Neg, and ask question later” when it comes to exceptionally foxy babes. It is a less risky default mode, if you ask me. Because for you to hit it right from the onset, you need to calibrate correctly; and there is a statistical chance you wont at first hit. Personally, i find it easier to overload the hot babe and then water down my alpha cred, than to undershoot and then try to climb up hill. It is easier to lose respect than to gain it. If you’ve already had it, it is yours to give away. A hot babe will make up her mind about you in the first few seconds/minutes of meeting you, why not err on the side of caution? Anyways, from my own experience, i find it easier to climb down hill than uphill in the value-continuum when it comes to hot women.
Looks, swagger and aura are too vague. These are all summed up in two words – body language.
I carry an S.T. Dupont maxijet lighter for my own cigars and cigs, it has a trick ignition system that requires you depress a long slide evenly along the lighter than opens a gate that lets loose the potent jet flame. When asked for a light, I usually hand it over and watch as they fumble around with it trying to activate the lighter. First comment out of their mouths is usually, “that’s a nice lighter.” When and if they can’t figure it out I tell them hand it over and light their cigarette for them. This invariably leads to a neg. Of course, when you carry such a lighter, your appearance should be in congruence with its quality.
Solid post. You capture something that’s not often enumarated in the community. Partly because your point is a subtle one, but also because it’s confusing to all the guys who are low-value. They’re better off just following the rules.
“You expect him to beg you to come in but instead he throws you a curveball”
If the neg is too offensive, and your perceived status too low, she may respond: “who does this arrogant little shit think he is?” Sometimes that leads to intrigue, other times to rejection.
You’re absolutely right, but read again what I wrote:
“This statement MIGHT be enough to get you intrigued, EVEN IF ITS ONLY FOR A SPLIT SECOND, in a nightclub you would have never remotely been interested in going to before hearing that statement.”
When I say “might” or “only for a split second,” I acknowledge that the gambit can fail. But as you said, you have her asking “who does this arrogant little shit think he is,” which is a form of intrigue, even if it’s negative intrigue. And any intrigue, even negative intrigue, is better than apathetic dismissal. In my time I’ve had MUCH better luck turning around passionately negative intrigue than I ever had turning around apathy. Because at least there’s a passionate emotion at play with negative intrigue, something you can grab onto and reverse the direction and momentum of and turn into passionate positive intrigue, kind of like verbal and emotional judo.
She was going to dismiss you anyway, so even if the neg doesn’t turn it around for you successfully you’re in a better place arousing the passionately negative intrigue (“Who does he think he is?”) than arousing nothing at all but apathetic dismissal. At least with the former you’ll stay in her mind a little longer and may even be remembered next time. With the latter, you’re immediately forgotten.
To Lioness,
A few things.
On the internet, the word “lioness” does not make you a woman anymore than the world “Dick Ghengis” makes anybody a man. Particularly on the internet.(Seriously, i hate dumb reasoning. And dumb reasoning doesnt equal “clues”, sweet cheeks.)
Number 2: You could well be a lesbian for all i know. Heterosexual males and lesbians are both interested in hot women. Both talk about hot women.
Number 3:Your appeal to authority(….I am a female which is why I know how it all plays out because I and many of my friends…)..this kind of appeal to authority, particularly when ensconced on anecdotal evidence is weak sauce. Especially given the indelible hard fact of the matter, that heterosexual females(that you claim to be) are the LAST PERSON ON THIS EARTH anybody should ever asked for advice when it comes to picking up women. What you tends to get most of the time are their internal baggage being spewed out, not what actually works. One can almost say: seriously CONSIDER doing the modified opposite of whatever an heterosexual females tells you. The only good source of advice when it comes to picking up hot women are other men that picks up hot women. I am sure you are going to disagree, each to his/her own. Hey, whatever works for you.
Number 4: Is this a joke? I mean, your whole “the way i see this all working out…” and “…i am a female which is why i know…” being used as a counterargument, being measured against my own firsthand experience of repeated, solid thrust of penetration into the pretty arses of foxy babes. There is no contest. Because what you are saying just doesnt compute at all with my experiences with beautiful women. Unless you are being facetious in a way i didnt get. You cannot counter-argue a man’s personal experience when it comes to bedding pretty women. Sorry, cupcake.
That will be all,
Entropy
Basil, let me just add, I don’t think such a strategy is the best one for a guy who is ridiculously low value compared to the girl he’s dealing with, but if the choice is between a neg that gets a “who the fuck do you think you are?” and an apathetic dismissal, I think the former is better. That being said, your better off avoiding either if you can of course!
DF, at 1:27pm.
Nicely done.
T,at 1:52p.m.,
you echoed my thoughts at 1:13p.m
of course, solid post.
Abe at 1:20pm.
Looks is not necessarily body language. Good looks is good looks. Body language can enhance it. Most people can see hotness despite your shabby appearance. I have picked up girls in bars with a 2 months worth of unshaved beard/moustache, uncombed hair, and rumpled clothes.
Entropy – good point at 1:13
DF – That’s fucking BRILLIANT.
Hey, dont know maybe you’ve written about this before…here is a link to the rise of Japan’s Herbivore’s men.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/.....index.html
(wonder if the G-manifesto wont spit out his cigar after reading this one. hehehe.)
@ Entropy,
Well if on the internet it doesn’t make me any more of a woman than a man, then don’t automatically assume I’m a man. I would think you would go on the most likely scenario and infer that I am woman. And even if I am a lesbian, I would identify as a woman- And if I was a homosexual male calling myself “The LionESS” it would mean that I would be identifying myself as a woman. Therefore, it would have been disrespectful to call me a male no matter how you interpret my username.
Do you really think you can throw out a couple of high school SAT vocabulary words and fool me into believing that you have a valid argument? No.
Note, that in my post I commented that I was speaking not only on my own personal experiences, but those of my friends as well. And just as you feel, that my singular opinion is not valid in its own right, neither is yours. The women you claim are beautiful may be based in comparison to you- and you may not be all that attractive, so a 10 to you can be an average man’s 5. At least from my standpoint, I can say that I (and my friends) have been approached by a multitude of guys with a variety of pickup techniques and I can give an opinion based on a smorgasbord of experiences whereas all you have is your own one trick pony of an approach that has been applied to women that you personally find attractive.
And your statement “pretty arses of foxy babes” is so damn lame, I can be quite confident that you ain’t hitting nothing.
The Lioness´s last blog ..Are Black Women TOO Independent?
Lioness,
That is seriously funny. You almost sounded like an ex…but then, that will be bloody insulting to the ex….
Let me delineate this more for you: On the internet, there is no more context clues to “lioness” than to “dick ghengis”, as such, it is immaterial what a counter-party on the internet thinks or assume about the gender of “lioness”. The only person who gives a shite enough about the gender of “lioness” to bring it up, is you. The universe doesnt give a gnart’s fart of that tidbit. Get it? And if you find it disrespectful to be referred to as a male on the internet; well, tough bloody shite, cupcake.
SAT vocabulary? HAHAHA. HEHEHEHE. HOHOHOHO.
On your plethora of experiences versus my variety of experiences; or How much you are getting or not getting it; or Who hits on you or doesnt hit on you. Babe, ripe fruit, sweet cheeks, or whatever you want to call yourself……i have this to say to all that. ready to hear it? are you ready? Here it comes: *YAAWWNNN*……That totally ends that debate right there, cupcake. Hehehe.
Ahem, curious, why do words or expressions like “solid fuck”, “pretty arses of foxy babes” bothers you? If you have issues with these, take it up with your man. That is his department. Dont started wanking on the internet at random strangers because that person uses words like “solid fuck” or “pretty arses of foxy babes”.
You remind me of those physically insecure feminazis in women studies classes that have issues with words like “nice, bouncy titties”, “tight, sculpted bottoms”, “sweet, sweet thang”, etcetera, hell, i am sure “pretty arses of foxy babes” and “solid fuck” probably give them the vapours too. Ever noticed how most hot babes dont seem too bothered by the so-called “sexual objectification” of women? It is the substandard ones that tends to make the most noise about these things. You are not a physically insecure feminazi, are you?
That will be all for now,
–Entropy
If the debate is over, why’d you keep typing? Maybe you haven’t reached your quota for # of words to use in from your word-a-day dictionary??
“It is the substandard ones that tends to make the most noise about these things.”- says the man who takes a minimum of 5 paragraphs to respond to each post.
And if you are not going to make assumptions- then don’t assume I am a man, you pompous bastard. And if you don’t give a damn, then why are you wasting your energy typing about?
And no your expressions don’t “bother” me. I just think you sound lame as hell. Like some washed up 40 something who trolls the bars in Hawaiian t-shirts with a gold medallion saying corny shit like “foxy babes” and other statements that died back in the 80s. Sound familiar? Yeah, cause that’s you. This conversation is now dead- just like your weak ass game.
The Lioness´s last blog ..Are Black Women TOO Independent?
T:
great post man.
context of value is key.
hopefully this post gets circulated and ruminated on; it might save the PUA community from turning into a ratiocinated circle jerk of new-age nerds trading pick-up lines and routines, using erudite acronyms and definitions.
again, awesome post.
Chuck´s last blog ..Facebook Defriending Round 2
Lioness, catlady, ripe fruit, mrs bottom heavy, sweet and sour, or whatever your name happens to be, so let me get all this back and forth convo straight, once and for all:
Annoying exhibit A:
This started with you having an obstinate objection to “neg theory”, claiming that (a)it doesnt work(“from your experience and that of your friends”) (b)it is morally objectionable. I pointed out that from my experience it works, and that (2) game is not about morality, but the calculus of power. And i also added: that i can no more convince you of the validity of my experience than you can convince me of yours. Each person to his/her own. This is completely rational position in my view. This, however, you have a problem with, insisting that you are right, that my counter argument based on my own experiential knowledge, is untenable. That since you are heterosexual female, therefore you must be more right(stupid appeal to authority fallacy thinking). I said, au contraire, the best person to ask about picking up hot women, are other men that pick up hot women–which is obviously true to anybody with a lick of sense. In reaction, you mysteriously started rattling on and on about how many times you get pickedup by men, how you are getting it or not getting it, yada this, yada that, etcetera.
Really, cupcake, cant you at least psychologically handle counter-factuals? Does it in the context of social dynamics, makes your head explode? Why easily go to pieces over a system held by others that just happens to be diametrically opposed to yours? If you dont have your candy all hell must break loose, is that it? You pound the table and throw hissy-fists, is that it? Please grow up. There is no santa claus. There is no tooth fairy. And appropriately negging a hot babe produces fireworks. Deal with it. You dont want to accept this, that is still marginally fine; but going about completely denying the success of a well calibrated NEG in all ways, shapes or forms, is just monumentally obtuse.
Annoying Exhibit B:
As if that is not annoying stupid enough, you then suddenly started going on and on and on about calling you a male over the internet(that you are a female), and then claiming that it is disrespectful. Seriously, sweet cheeks, nobody cares. Nobody gives a MERD. Really. Maybe daddy cares, you know, for her little princess; but nobody gives a flying bloody fuck on the internet. I have to ask, are you on any medication? Dont tell me all this is just your period acting up.
Because it is just bloody incomprehensible to me why you are making issues, raising drama about whether i call you male or female? Yapping on about, “the context female clues of the name ‘lioness’” with total strangers on the internet. LMAO. Dont tell me this is what you do–See how much drama over pure bollocks you can generate with strangers on the web?
Dont you have something better to do? Like cook for your man or something? You know, do his laundry? Clean his socks? Make him a sandwich?
Chicks and their issues–You are all the same….
Annoying Exhibit C:
My, oh my, then there is your feminazi issues with words like “solid fuck”, “pretty arses of foxy babes”, “substandard specimen of a woman”? What? You have issues with “sweet, sweet thang”?, “nice bunch of pretty, bouncy fucklets”? “round, supple, tightholes”? *SIGHS*. You are one Ahedonic cunt, you know that? Your whining about anybody that uses such expression, that they must be 40something year old, silver or gold medallion earring something, some sorts of hawaiian t-shirts. Are you selling t-shirts, Or were you just describing your ideal mate?
Annoying Exhibit D:
There is your pointless whining about something to do with my “SAT vocabulary and long paragraphs”. Are you Reading impaired? autistic? Comprehension-limited? ADHD? Or just plain Spastic? No post-graduate level education? You have issues with the robust use of the english language? What are you, sarah palin’s lost sister?
Seriously, you are asinine.
Listen up, bloke, you cannot expect me to take you seriously. Lass, you need to do better than this. For starters, you need to make me a sandwich, and then get on your knees in front of me. Preferably, on all fours, while i rest my legs on your back, using you as my footstool; then proceed to eat your sandwich while operating the remote on one hand, and sipping my beer…now and then, i will let rip a solid fart.
That will be all for now,
Entropy.
More on NEG theory, for lady cupcake.
Doing my weekly round of PUA blogs when i came across this fortuitous post by Roissy. Actually posted today. It is all about the NEG.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/20.....a-gay-man/
Entropy, over and out.
Fantastic. It really is about the context. Even those who have never set foot inside a club and have no interest in those kinds of social circles know the “exclusivity” and “status” that these places convey.
I think that is why the “neg” seems so terrible and out of place in most cases. Often, it does not serve to increase the status of the man who is using them but instead lowers it. Most negs seem like thinly veiled insults coming from a random guy on the Internet. They then completely lose their playful and teasing tone. A lot of guys are just not happy or positive, and they feel an anger and resentment towards women, so they use the neg the same way they use an insult. Bad delivery.
Also very insightful of you to see that the best ones do not need negs because their actions, voice inflections and demeanor convey value — constantly. There’s a natural leadership and authority that comes with inner strength and confidence, and everyone can feel it. When they neg, it’s because they want to just be playful, have fun, be witty and funny. They don’t even do it with any other intention. That’s the kind of context in which the neg increases value.
The comments were almost as interesting this post. The one thing that struck me though was Entropy saying “What is the point of lighting a cigarette for an ugly chick?”
Several and sundry. That’s how you build up your aura. The measure of a person is not how they treat their “betters” but even the most common person. You’re not just trying to talk yourself into being the Man, you actually have to be the Man. If you only do things for points or to try and impress, you’re a phony.
To me the sexiest man is the one that’s so confident, has so much swagger and is so dynamic, he’s self contained. He’s in the world but not of it. Thats godly.
So a fat chick needs a light, give her a light. Now, the next time she sees you with her smoking hot friend or co-worker, she’ll vouch for you “Entropy is mad cool.” as opposed to “That dude is a dickhead. He acts like you owe him a hard on because you’re walking down the street.”
The Other Thing, Entropy: “…that heterosexual females(that you claim to be) are the LAST PERSON ON THIS EARTH anybody should ever asked for advice when it comes to picking up women. What you tends to get most of the time are their internal baggage being spewed out, not what actually works. One can almost say: seriously CONSIDER doing the modified opposite of whatever an heterosexual females tells you. The only good source of advice when it comes to picking up hot women are other men that picks up hot women.”
By that same logic, heterosexual men are the last people you should ask about what a man wants. Girls should just ask their female friends who deal with lots of men how they pull all those men and go along with that.
Don’t listen to what ANYBODY says out of their mouth. Don’t study what anybody does, because like T. says you might not have the same magnetic attractiveness they do or be able to pull it off the same.
The REAL other thing, beautiful women such as myself : ), get hated on all the time. All men have some kind of comeback for if you tell him you’re in a relationship or you don’t want to dance or you don’t drink. Or some kind of “I don’t really like you” persona they try to convey.If it’s an urban Black man, he wants me to know that golddiggers like me are a dime a dozen and he’s not the herb. I’ve never in my life asked a man for money or to be in his video or to introduce me to so and so but because of their perception without ever knowing me, there’s some kind mortal combat of macking he’s dragging me into. This could be a man that I wanted to try to talk to me, an asshole whose reputation precedes him, a “pimp” type who never stood a chance, whatever. I never understood it until I started reading this blog. Wow.
Second, because YOU think a woman is beautiful doesn’t mean she does. Most really good looking women have good looking moms, sisters, cousins, friends, whoever. Its been times when she’s been “the whole shit of the whole night” and others when her sister or her homegirl had dudes buying out the bar while 15 “producers” stalked her the whole night without buying one drink because they didn’t want her to think they were sweating her. A smooth compliment with no overtly sexual tinge that brings a smile to your face is a like 5000 cool points. It makes her feel good, she’ll like you for it and its a win-win.
Third, that Mr. Nice Guy is a myth. Or if he exists its in Cowlick, West Virginia somewhere. Nobody approaches a woman as Mr. Nice Guy. If he’s buying you drink after drink, putting you in a cab, treating all of your friends its a resource display to show you he’s got so much money. The men paying women “compliments” about how good they look are trying to appeal to her vanity to get sex. And we all know that. And those compliments are always more along the lines of “Damn shorty, you wearing the fuck out that dress.” rather than “I’d like to sit down with you, get to know your thought on politics and human evolution. You are the smartest, most spiritually attuned woman I’ve ever met. And I’d like you to meet my grandparents.” LOL.