I work with a guy like that. He’s actually one of our contractors – he and his mom. He’s a bitch, and she’s an Uuuuber-bitch. I kid you not, they sound the exact same way – profusely thanking and apologizing. WTF are you sorry about!? GEEZ! Grow some balls!
The Sphinx´s last blog ..Bachelor of Arts, Master of Conceited Bastard

“So I’m heading out to the highway
I got nothin to lose at all
I’m goin to do it my way
Take a chance before I fall
A chance before I fall”

Now take my advice like I said earlier and go fuck yourselves!

Peters last blog post..Tuesday, February 3

I’m not really a fan of this, as I find it borderline cruel to be on the receiving end of it. But I like letting people know about it so that they can realize when someone is using intermittent rewards on them to make them jump through hoops.

On a related note, I?ve found thanking peers and even superiors with the right delivery (the same one you?d use to thank a subordinate for a job well done) can result in a reversal of the superior / subordinate dynamic, which can be useful for any negotiations, like raises or perks or promotions. Comments on why that might be so?

I think just as behavior sometimes follows your thoughts and feelings, oftentimes thoughts and feelings can follow behavior if that makes any sense. Hence the “fake it till you make it” mantra. If you do a behavior long enough, the corresponding mindset to the behavior starts to get internalized. Here’s a sick example (I feel like I’m giving away a lot of dirty tricks today, but I’m in a good mood so fuck it): if you consistently tell someone to do things they were going to do anyway (create the behavior first), they will start internalizing the message that they should listen to you (the mindset follows). For example, as someone is going to sit down, say “Have a seat.” As they are hanging up their coat, say “Why don’t you hang your coat?” You subtly throw in as many of these commands as you can for things they were going to do anyway and the behavior will slowly start causing them to internalize the mindset of following your commands. After a while of this, you can start giving commands to things they weren’t already planning to do and they will start doing them as a result of the “behavior training.”

This is probably the same concept at play with a subordinate constantly thanking superiors as if they were beneath him. It starts to train him to react accordingly. The problem with these techniques is that if you are not subtle and are obvious with it, you risk being called out by the other person for it. You can’t do it too transparently, especially if the other person is very dominant themselves and socially savvy, or you risk being called out.

As for TokyoJesusfist, I don’t think his good point was unwittingly raised. I think he actually has several valid points, and that’s not my issue with him. My problem with him is that from what I’ve seen on other blogs, it’s impossible to make him grasp your counterarguments, and he seems to use a mix of insults combined with a refusal to give credence to what you’re saying combined with repeatedly driving the same points home over and over again as a cocktail for frustrating his opponent. I don’t even want to go down that road. If I thought he was sincerely interested in open discourse so that we could learn from and improve each other, I’d totally engage him. But to me, he just wants to attack and frustrate people who he doesn’t agree with.

Since you’re bringing up the same point now and I believe you really want to discuss the matter honestly, I’ll now respond to that same question. I took the term “Renaissance Man” from Tariq Nasheed. The reason for the term is simply that you are a guy that takes the best part of all different types of men. Like I said, I don’t believe you can be a pure alpha male in this society without either being an unrepentant criminal or a filthy rich powermonger. But there are benefits as well as drawbacks to being the pure alpha jerk. Also, there are benefits as well as drawbacks to being a guy who plays by the rules, cooperates with others, etc. There are benefits and drawbacks to being really intellectual. There are also benefits and drawbacks to being a metrosexual. What the term Renaissance Man means is a guy who combines the best parts of the different types of men while minimizing the drawbacks. So it does satisfy the “Jack of All Trades” angle in that respect. But since one of my upcoming steps actually does revolve around making yourself a polymath, it satisfies that definition too.

Oh, and there was hardly anything “unwitting” about what I said. You’re basically hijacking my post and claiming it as your own.

Regarding situations where one person is the obvious situational superior, like a manager with employees or a customer with a service person, I’ve found that being slightly overgenerous with thanks results in a higher standard of performance. What I think is happening is that the person in the subordinate position is recognizing your recognition of them as a person, and with that recognition they positively emotionally engage in the work you’ve set out for them, with the expected beneficial results. While overthanking isn’t the only way to do that, doing it just a little can be a useful dominance tool.

On a related note, I’ve found thanking peers and even superiors with the right delivery (the same one you’d use to thank a subordinate for a job well done) can result in a reversal of the superior / subordinate dynamic, which can be useful for any negotiations, like raises or perks or promotions. Comments on why that might be so?

I think the troll might actualy have unwittingly raised one interesting point to ponder, namely the difference and overlap between the definition of Renaissance Man you’re using and the traditional one, which overlaps heavily with ‘Jack of All Trades’ and ‘Polymath’. Your second post on the topic seems to indicate you’re overlapping both as well, but I think there is something different, something subtle enough that I can’t put my finger on it immediately, between the two definitions. Is that your thought as well, or am I imagining things?

I?m sorry, but being English we apologise all the time.

Is my favorite Brit engaging in intentional irony in this sentence or was this a slip?

I think that it?s a slippery slope. What happens when your girlfriend starts to just expect that you open the door for her, buy her flowers, pick her up from the airport, take her dog to the vet, allow her mom to live in for 3 weeks, etc. It snowballs into discourtesy.

It all depends on what you consider the bare minimum and what you consider a real effort. For example I don’t expect a thanks every time I open the door for a woman. Maybe the first time at most, but not every time. There are so many doors to open over the course of a day, and it’s not that much of an effort to do it on my part. On the other hand picking her up from the airport, taking her dog to the vet, allowing her mom to live in for 3 weeks, all without complaint, that’s really some upstanding stuff that requires some sacrifice that a lot of people wouldn’t handle in as classy a fashion. That definitely deserves thanks.

Thanks is a nice way to recognize someone helping you, even if it is his job.

I have no problem with telling someone thanks for helping me if its their job, but only if I feel they are making a sincere effort to do a good job. I feel however that if someone just did the bare minimum, a Renaissance Man should just give one thanks during the course of the interaction and reserve any additional thank you’s for any above average acts the service person does for you.